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Sadness and Hope in the Aftermath of Immigration Enforcement

Debates about immigration policies and reform continue to rage. Consequently, op-ed pieces, books, and reports on this contentious topic appear daily. These materials focus mostly on the legal and ethical battles surrounding raids on immigrant work places and homes, as well as the treatment of immigrants while in custody and during deportation. My limited writing on this topic has treated the xenophobic-inspired murder of Ecuadorian immigrant Marcello Lucero in Suffolk County, New York, and the infamous "illegal alien" costume debacle of this past Halloween. Absent from my writings on immigration (as well as in those of others) is any mention of the children of immigrants.

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Thankfully, filling this void is a recent report issued by The Urban Institute titled Facing Our Future: Children in the Aftermath of Immigration Enforcement. The report thoroughly examines the effects of family separation on children due to the arrest, detention, and deportation of their parents. Facing Our Future is invaluable for bringing the plight and resiliency of these children to light.

In the report's Executive Summary, the writers state, "Today there are an estimated 5.5 million children with unauthorized immigrant parents, about three-quarters of whom are U.S.-born citizens." The report also mentions that "the federal government spends billions each year to arrest, detain, and deport immigrants, many of whom are parents. By one estimate, in the last 10 years, more than 100,000 immigrant parents of U.S. citizen children have been deported from the United States." Since the numbers often cloud the personal narratives of those involved, the report closely examines the effects of immigration enforcement on "190 children in 85 families in six locations across the country."

Even before reading the report, I knew that all these broken homes could only result in disaster. One of the six locations the report focuses on is the Little Haiti neighborhood in my hometown of Miami, FL, where "a wave of sweeps by FOTs and other enforcement activities" has occurred, but now "appear to have begun to decline." Since Haitians are not granted asylum or temporary protected status (as are Cubans), unauthorized Haitians residing in Little Haiti could be arrested and deported at any time, even if they have lived and worked in the community for years.

The U.S.-born children of Haitian immigrants constantly live in fear and anxiety at the prospect that authorities could, at any moment, arrest and deport their parents, older siblings, extended family, and friends. The children also live in economic insecurity, for their parents have difficulty finding living wages and/or were deported. Thus, it is no surprise that, according to the report, "Haitians in Miami-Dade County had a poverty rate of 30 percent, and the overall population of Little Haiti had a poverty rate of 44 percent in 2000." Moreover, the report claims that children of immigrants also face housing instability, food shortages, and difficulties in school. On a brighter note, however, the report states, "In several cases students who had struggled at first recovered their academic performance or saw improvements in the long run." Even in the face of seemingly insurmountable adversity, these children demonstrate their resiliency and hope in a better world.

Having worked for two years at a high school in Little Haiti where most of the students are sons and daughters of Haitian immigrants, I witnessed the adverse consequences of poverty and broken homes on my students. Perhaps in an attempt to dull their painful reality or simply to survive on the mean streets, some were attracted to crime, drugs, and alcohol. Many had to work full-time and part-time, forcing their studies to take a back seat. And some even dropped out of school because of financial strains. Others sought to improve their lot by focusing on their studies in the hope of one day strolling the halls of our nation's most prestigious universities.

Facing Our Future: Children in the Aftermath of Immigration Enforcement highlights these economic, psychological, and emotional challenges confronting children of immigrants. The report elicits in the reader both sadness and hope. Above all, it reminds us that in our immigration debates, we can no longer disregard the well-being of children of immigrants. If society is judged by how we treat the most vulnerable, then hopefully we will consider the harmful effects of broken homes on children of immigrants -- and, in fact, on all children.

In sum, life for many children of immigrants is neither easy nor pleasant. It is a constant struggle to balance the many responsibilities that even some adults do not face. Yet several of them do swing and hit life's unfair curve balls and continue their education at the community colleges, technical/vocational schools, and universities. My favorite time of the school year was graduation, when proud family members would share in their children's triumph. In remembering all those who did not make it, it was also the saddest time for me.

portrait-cesar-baldelomarCésar J. Baldelomar is a graduate student at Harvard Divinity School. He is also the executive director of Pax Romana Center for International Study of Catholic Social Teaching. You can visit César at his Web site (www.cesarjb.org) and read his blogs at www.holisticthoughts.com.

Sojourners relies on the support of readers like you to sustain our message and ministry.

by: ckgmail

02-25-2010 @ 6:42pm

But remember what finally ended the Vietnam war. U S forces weren't decisively defeated militarily. It was the uproar at home. The draft brought about the uproar. There was no groundswell against the Iraq war. The only ones fighting over there (from the US) were those who had volunteered to fight.

I am ambivalent about the draft. And if there iver is a draft, I hope it is truly universal. Not one that can be dodged with educational deferments etc.

by: SpareChange

02-25-2010 @ 10:35pm

"It seems to me that when evaluating our behavior and policies we shouldn't compare ourselves to the worst governments."

Sorry, substitute in Canada or Switzerland...etc. Either way, no other country on the face of this earth provides no-questions-asked benefits the way we do.

"Maybe when each child is born they should be submitted to the rigorous difficulties of obtaining American citizenship"

Interesting, but then who would pay for the $40k debt each of my children is saddled with from birth as part of the national debt...which is part of the benefits listed above???

by: ckgmail

02-25-2010 @ 8:42pm

But remember what finally ended the Vietnam war. U S forces weren't decisively defeated militarily. It was the uproar at home. The draft brought about the uproar. There was no groundswell against the Iraq war. The only ones fighting over there (from the US) were those who had volunteered to fight.

I am ambivalent about the draft. And if there iver is a draft, I hope it is truly universal. Not one that can be dodged with educational deferments etc.

And may I remind you, sadly, that we have not gotten away from government wire-tapping, Gitmo, etc.

by: SpareChange

02-25-2010 @ 8:35pm

"It seems to me that when evaluating our behavior and policies we shouldn't compare ourselves to the worst governments."

Sorry, substitute in Canada or Switzerland...etc. Either way, no other country on the face of this earth provides no-questions-asked benefits the way we do.

"Maybe when each child is born they should be submitted to the rigorous difficulties of obtaining American citizenship"

Interesting, but then who would pay for the $40k debt each of my children is saddled with from birth as part of the national debt...which is part of the benefits listed above???

by: ckgmail

02-22-2010 @ 1:40pm

Thank you, Cesar, for this blog-post. I have long been concerned about these children who are citizens, if their parents are deported. They can be in a kind of no-man's land. I'm also concerned for children who were brought in "illegally" and have grown up and been educated in the U. S., know no one in their native country, who are for all intents and purposes except legal documentation, Americans. It's too bad there is not some humane way to deal with such. This kind of problem will endure as long as there is the extreme wealth disparity between the U.S. and our nearby neighbors.

by: fundamentalist

02-22-2010 @ 3:00pm

Libertarians and progressives can agree on immigration. There should be no national borders.

by: ckgmail

02-22-2010 @ 4:59pm

Well, how about that? If we are not in agreement on this, we are close!

by: trwrebel

02-22-2010 @ 7:34pm

I think this song (Rosanna) by Marcus Hummon says more than a 1000 debates or sermons on this topic. The story in the song is TRUE.
You need to "rewind" the song when the site comes up. Enjoy.

http://music.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=m...

by: mjbickmore

02-22-2010 @ 8:52pm

Sorry, but we should be strictly enforcing our borders. Furthermore, children of deported immigrants should go with them and not allow their family's to be separated. We should change our laws to curtail this ridiculous birthright citizenship, as should should naturally maintain their parents' citizenship status.

by: duhsciple

02-23-2010 @ 1:02am

All arriving immigrants since 1492 should return home to their nations of origin, along with their children? Sounds complicated

by: ckgmail

02-23-2010 @ 12:13pm

Should there be no room for compassion in immigration policy?

by: ckgmail

02-23-2010 @ 12:17pm

Actually, there are a good many points of agreement between libertarians and progressives: the drug war and free speech to name a couple. The first amendment in general though some libertarians and some progressives would part company on the interpretation of the religion clauses. Probably more.

by: GlenPeterson

02-23-2010 @ 1:24pm

The children of immigrants and child immigrants are a huge reason why I believe that we must work toward comprehensive immigration reform as a moral, Christian issue.

by: SpareChange

02-23-2010 @ 2:30pm

"Should there be no room for compassion in immigration policy?"

Uh, let me see if I got this right...

Crossing the border illegally in China, Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. will get you either shot, detained indefinately, thrown into a political prison to rot, never heard from again.

Crossing the border illegally in the U.S. gets you a job, a drivers license, a social security card, welfare, food stamps, credit cards, subsidized rent or a loan to buy a house, free education, free health care, a lobbyist in Washington, billions of dollars of public documents printed in your language, the right to carry your country's flag while you protest that you don't get enough respect, and you can vote!

Where's the compassion?!?

by: Naomi 'Reynolds' Brodock

02-24-2010 @ 1:46am

It seems to me that when evaluating our behavior and policies we shouldn't compare ourselves to the worst governments. It's like a bully saying that he isn't mean because he isn't as bad as Hitler.

All those things you listed, whether you agree with them or not, are offered to American Citizens - naturalized children of immigrants, some legal, some illegal. What makes us so superior to fellow human beings born in other countries just because we had the luck to be born to parents who immigrated a few generations back?

Maybe you are right, maybe nobody should inherently get those rights and protections. Maybe when each child is born they should be submitted to the rigorous difficulties of obtaining American citizenship, or citizenship in any developed nation for that matter. Would you want your children and grandchildren to have to face the hurdles immigrants do? Or worse yet, would you want them to face the life of abject poverty in underdeveloped nations? I recently became a mother for the first time, and I know that even if it meant deportation for me and separation from my child, I would have entered this country illegally to give my child the chance to be a naturalized citizen of a wealthy nation rather than see him suffer and starve.

by: ford49

02-24-2010 @ 4:20am

"...we should be strictly enforcing our borders."

"Manifest Destiny" raises its ugly head again...

So after the genocide of one people and the enslavement of another, now we sould be entitled to our unquestioned sanctuary in our "conquered" land...obscene does not begin to describe this logic.

by: ckgmail

02-24-2010 @ 11:15am

God does not grade on the curve. What China, North Korea, etc do is not relevant to the justice of another country's immigration policy. The stuff in your second paragraph sounds like it come straight from Glen Beck or that guy who used to issue immigration rants on CNN.

For Christians, treatment of immigrants is more a moral than a political issue. Several places in the Torah have the provision to "treat the alien among you the same as a citizen."

by: WaveTossed

02-24-2010 @ 7:18pm

"Actually, there are a good many points of agreement between libertarians and progressives".

There are a lot of points of agreements between libertarians and progressives. Here is a website where a person can take "the world's smallest political quiz" and you'll see the intersection of these two types of viewpoints. Take this quiz; it's quite interesting.

http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

I once heard someone give a general (probably over-generalized) version of the "conservative/liberal" dichotomy:

Liberals: Government out of people's homes and bedrooms, and out of other countries. Government out of peoples' phones and computers. Government into people's businesses -- and now increasingly, into people's choices as far as diet, health, etc. (the so-called "war on obesity" as an example). Back in my day, liberals opposed a military draft. Nowadays, more and more liberals are supporting a military draft <eyes roll>

Conservatives: Government into people's homes and bedrooms, and into other countries. Government into peoples' phones and computers. Government out of people's businesses -- and out of people's choices as far as diet, health, etc. Mostly anti-draft (they were pro-draft during my day).

Libertarians/independents (like myself): government out of both our bedrooms, personal lives, our phones, computers, our businesses. And out of the affairs of other countries.

As for immigration, it's a mixed bag. I know some progressives who continue to shout along with many conservatives, "they're breaking the law; all they want are welfare, food stamps, medical benefits, etc. Send them back to Mexico (or wherever)" As much as I love Ron Paul and I originally supported him for President, the one issue that I emphatically disagree with him is immigration. He's from Texas and even he has to get re-elected each year. If you're from Texas and are a politician, then you have to be anti-immigrant; that's a fact of life. Myself, I'm mainly with the Cato Institute's views on immigration, which posits for immigration reform so that more immigrants can come to our country to work (which is what the vast majority of them wish to do).

by: WaveTossed

02-24-2010 @ 7:22pm

"Crossing the border illegally in China, Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. will get you either shot, detained indefinately, thrown into a political prison to rot, never heard from again.

"Crossing the border illegally in the U.S. gets you a job,"

Are you trying to say that perhaps the U.S. should be more like China, Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Cuba, etc?

by: ckgmail

02-22-2010 @ 1:40pm

Thank you, Cesar, for this blog-post. I have long been concerned about these children who are citizens, if their parents are deported. They can be in a kind of no-man's land. I'm also concerned for children who were brought in "illegally" and have grown up and been educated in the U. S., know no one in their native country, who are for all intents and purposes except legal documentation, Americans. It's too bad there is not some humane way to deal with such. This kind of problem will endure as long as there is the extreme wealth disparity between the U.S. and our nearby neighbors.

by: ckgmail

02-24-2010 @ 11:50pm

I clicked the link and took the test. Their rating of where I am politically did not surprise me. I tend toward but am not a thorough going pacifist. I am ambivalent about the draft because I think, with others, that if we had a really universal draft we would be much less likely to get entangled in military adventures. What is the purpose of a professional army? To wage war. I'll qualify that a bit. I was proud of our military presence in Haiti to help preserve order after the quake. But I hope we get the heck out of there ASAP. Our military hardly ever leaves a place. Germany 65 years. South Korea 60 years. We left Vietnam because we had to. I doubt I will live long enough to see the end of our military presence in Iraq or Afghanistan, or, God forbid, Iran.

by: fundamentalist

02-22-2010 @ 3:00pm

Libertarians and progressives can agree on immigration. There should be no national borders.

by: ckgmail

02-22-2010 @ 4:59pm

Well, how about that? If we are not in agreement on this, we are close!

by: SpareChange

02-25-2010 @ 10:35pm

"It seems to me that when evaluating our behavior and policies we shouldn't compare ourselves to the worst governments."

Sorry, substitute in Canada or Switzerland...etc. Either way, no other country on the face of this earth provides no-questions-asked benefits the way we do.

"Maybe when each child is born they should be submitted to the rigorous difficulties of obtaining American citizenship"

Interesting, but then who would pay for the $40k debt each of my children is saddled with from birth as part of the national debt...which is part of the benefits listed above???

by: ckgmail

02-25-2010 @ 8:42pm

But remember what finally ended the Vietnam war. U S forces weren't decisively defeated militarily. It was the uproar at home. The draft brought about the uproar. There was no groundswell against the Iraq war. The only ones fighting over there (from the US) were those who had volunteered to fight.

I am ambivalent about the draft. And if there iver is a draft, I hope it is truly universal. Not one that can be dodged with educational deferments etc.

And may I remind you, sadly, that we have not gotten away from government wire-tapping, Gitmo, etc.

by: WaveTossed

02-25-2010 @ 2:30pm

"I am ambivalent about the draft because I think, with others, that if we had a really universal draft we would be much less likely to get entangled in military adventures."

Not true. During the Vietnam war, one of the facets that allowed LBJ to continue it as long as he did was the fact that he could draft as much cannon-fodder as he wished.

Anti-war people who think that restoring the draft might be a good idea should study the anti-war movement during the Vietnam war. When there is a draft, then there can be everlasting war.

I believe that today's liberals/progressives are far too trusting of government power. Power corrupts, and especially, government power corrupts. My father used to say jokingly that "what we need is a benevolent dictatorship." The problem of course (as my father knew) was that once you have a dictatorship, it won't be benevolent. The same goes for concentrated government power. Does anyone truly want to go back to government wire-tapping, Gitmo, torture, and similar things?

by: trwrebel

02-22-2010 @ 7:34pm

I think this song (Rosanna) by Marcus Hummon says more than a 1000 debates or sermons on this topic. The story in the song is TRUE.
You need to "rewind" the song when the site comes up. Enjoy.

http://music.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=m...

by: mjbickmore

02-22-2010 @ 8:52pm

Sorry, but we should be strictly enforcing our borders. Furthermore, children of deported immigrants should go with them and not allow their family's to be separated. We should change our laws to curtail this ridiculous birthright citizenship, as should should naturally maintain their parents' citizenship status.

by: duhsciple

02-23-2010 @ 1:02am

All arriving immigrants since 1492 should return home to their nations of origin, along with their children? Sounds complicated

by: ckgmail

02-25-2010 @ 6:42pm

But remember what finally ended the Vietnam war. U S forces weren't decisively defeated militarily. It was the uproar at home. The draft brought about the uproar. There was no groundswell against the Iraq war. The only ones fighting over there (from the US) were those who had volunteered to fight.

I am ambivalent about the draft. And if there iver is a draft, I hope it is truly universal. Not one that can be dodged with educational deferments etc.

by: ckgmail

02-23-2010 @ 12:13pm

Should there be no room for compassion in immigration policy?

by: ckgmail

02-23-2010 @ 12:17pm

Actually, there are a good many points of agreement between libertarians and progressives: the drug war and free speech to name a couple. The first amendment in general though some libertarians and some progressives would part company on the interpretation of the religion clauses. Probably more.

by: GlenPeterson

02-23-2010 @ 1:24pm

The children of immigrants and child immigrants are a huge reason why I believe that we must work toward comprehensive immigration reform as a moral, Christian issue.

by: SpareChange

02-23-2010 @ 2:30pm

"Should there be no room for compassion in immigration policy?"

Uh, let me see if I got this right...

Crossing the border illegally in China, Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. will get you either shot, detained indefinately, thrown into a political prison to rot, never heard from again.

Crossing the border illegally in the U.S. gets you a job, a drivers license, a social security card, welfare, food stamps, credit cards, subsidized rent or a loan to buy a house, free education, free health care, a lobbyist in Washington, billions of dollars of public documents printed in your language, the right to carry your country's flag while you protest that you don't get enough respect, and you can vote!

Where's the compassion?!?

by: Naomi &#39;Reynolds&#39; Brodock

02-24-2010 @ 1:46am

It seems to me that when evaluating our behavior and policies we shouldn't compare ourselves to the worst governments. It's like a bully saying that he isn't mean because he isn't as bad as Hitler.

All those things you listed, whether you agree with them or not, are offered to American Citizens - naturalized children of immigrants, some legal, some illegal. What makes us so superior to fellow human beings born in other countries just because we had the luck to be born to parents who immigrated a few generations back?

Maybe you are right, maybe nobody should inherently get those rights and protections. Maybe when each child is born they should be submitted to the rigorous difficulties of obtaining American citizenship, or citizenship in any developed nation for that matter. Would you want your children and grandchildren to have to face the hurdles immigrants do? Or worse yet, would you want them to face the life of abject poverty in underdeveloped nations? I recently became a mother for the first time, and I know that even if it meant deportation for me and separation from my child, I would have entered this country illegally to give my child the chance to be a naturalized citizen of a wealthy nation rather than see him suffer and starve.

by: ford49

02-24-2010 @ 4:20am

"...we should be strictly enforcing our borders."

"Manifest Destiny" raises its ugly head again...

So after the genocide of one people and the enslavement of another, now we sould be entitled to our unquestioned sanctuary in our "conquered" land...obscene does not begin to describe this logic.

by: SpareChange

02-25-2010 @ 8:35pm

"It seems to me that when evaluating our behavior and policies we shouldn't compare ourselves to the worst governments."

Sorry, substitute in Canada or Switzerland...etc. Either way, no other country on the face of this earth provides no-questions-asked benefits the way we do.

"Maybe when each child is born they should be submitted to the rigorous difficulties of obtaining American citizenship"

Interesting, but then who would pay for the $40k debt each of my children is saddled with from birth as part of the national debt...which is part of the benefits listed above???

by: ckgmail

02-24-2010 @ 11:15am

God does not grade on the curve. What China, North Korea, etc do is not relevant to the justice of another country's immigration policy. The stuff in your second paragraph sounds like it come straight from Glen Beck or that guy who used to issue immigration rants on CNN.

For Christians, treatment of immigrants is more a moral than a political issue. Several places in the Torah have the provision to "treat the alien among you the same as a citizen."

by: WaveTossed

02-24-2010 @ 7:18pm

"Actually, there are a good many points of agreement between libertarians and progressives".

There are a lot of points of agreements between libertarians and progressives. Here is a website where a person can take "the world's smallest political quiz" and you'll see the intersection of these two types of viewpoints. Take this quiz; it's quite interesting.

http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

I once heard someone give a general (probably over-generalized) version of the "conservative/liberal" dichotomy:

Liberals: Government out of people's homes and bedrooms, and out of other countries. Government out of peoples' phones and computers. Government into people's businesses -- and now increasingly, into people's choices as far as diet, health, etc. (the so-called "war on obesity" as an example). Back in my day, liberals opposed a military draft. Nowadays, more and more liberals are supporting a military draft <eyes roll>

Conservatives: Government into people's homes and bedrooms, and into other countries. Government into peoples' phones and computers. Government out of people's businesses -- and out of people's choices as far as diet, health, etc. Mostly anti-draft (they were pro-draft during my day).

Libertarians/independents (like myself): government out of both our bedrooms, personal lives, our phones, computers, our businesses. And out of the affairs of other countries.

As for immigration, it's a mixed bag. I know some progressives who continue to shout along with many conservatives, "they're breaking the law; all they want are welfare, food stamps, medical benefits, etc. Send them back to Mexico (or wherever)" As much as I love Ron Paul and I originally supported him for President, the one issue that I emphatically disagree with him is immigration. He's from Texas and even he has to get re-elected each year. If you're from Texas and are a politician, then you have to be anti-immigrant; that's a fact of life. Myself, I'm mainly with the Cato Institute's views on immigration, which posits for immigration reform so that more immigrants can come to our country to work (which is what the vast majority of them wish to do).

by: WaveTossed

02-24-2010 @ 7:22pm

"Crossing the border illegally in China, Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. will get you either shot, detained indefinately, thrown into a political prison to rot, never heard from again.

"Crossing the border illegally in the U.S. gets you a job,"

Are you trying to say that perhaps the U.S. should be more like China, Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Cuba, etc?

by: ckgmail

02-24-2010 @ 11:50pm

I clicked the link and took the test. Their rating of where I am politically did not surprise me. I tend toward but am not a thorough going pacifist. I am ambivalent about the draft because I think, with others, that if we had a really universal draft we would be much less likely to get entangled in military adventures. What is the purpose of a professional army? To wage war. I'll qualify that a bit. I was proud of our military presence in Haiti to help preserve order after the quake. But I hope we get the heck out of there ASAP. Our military hardly ever leaves a place. Germany 65 years. South Korea 60 years. We left Vietnam because we had to. I doubt I will live long enough to see the end of our military presence in Iraq or Afghanistan, or, God forbid, Iran.

by: WaveTossed

02-25-2010 @ 2:30pm

"I am ambivalent about the draft because I think, with others, that if we had a really universal draft we would be much less likely to get entangled in military adventures."

Not true. During the Vietnam war, one of the facets that allowed LBJ to continue it as long as he did was the fact that he could draft as much cannon-fodder as he wished.

Anti-war people who think that restoring the draft might be a good idea should study the anti-war movement during the Vietnam war. When there is a draft, then there can be everlasting war.

I believe that today's liberals/progressives are far too trusting of government power. Power corrupts, and especially, government power corrupts. My father used to say jokingly that "what we need is a benevolent dictatorship." The problem of course (as my father knew) was that once you have a dictatorship, it won't be benevolent. The same goes for concentrated government power. Does anyone truly want to go back to government wire-tapping, Gitmo, torture, and similar things?

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: ckgmail

02-22-2010 @ 1:40pm

Thank you, Cesar, for this blog-post. I have long been concerned about these children who are citizens, if their parents are deported. They can be in a kind of no-man's land. I'm also concerned for children who were brought in "illegally" and have grown up and been educated in the U. S., know no one in their native country, who are for all intents and purposes except legal documentation, Americans. It's too bad there is not some humane way to deal with such. This kind of problem will endure as long as there is the extreme wealth disparity between the U.S. and our nearby neighbors.

by: ckgmail

02-22-2010 @ 1:40pm

Thank you, Cesar, for this blog-post. I have long been concerned about these children who are citizens, if their parents are deported. They can be in a kind of no-man's land. I'm also concerned for children who were brought in "illegally" and have grown up and been educated in the U. S., know no one in their native country, who are for all intents and purposes except legal documentation, Americans. It's too bad there is not some humane way to deal with such. This kind of problem will endure as long as there is the extreme wealth disparity between the U.S. and our nearby neighbors.

by: fundamentalist

02-22-2010 @ 3:00pm

Libertarians and progressives can agree on immigration. There should be no national borders.

by: fundamentalist

02-22-2010 @ 3:00pm

Libertarians and progressives can agree on immigration. There should be no national borders.

by: ckgmail

02-22-2010 @ 4:59pm

Well, how about that? If we are not in agreement on this, we are close!

by: ckgmail

02-22-2010 @ 4:59pm

Well, how about that? If we are not in agreement on this, we are close!

by: trwrebel

02-22-2010 @ 7:34pm

I think this song (Rosanna) by Marcus Hummon says more than a 1000 debates or sermons on this topic. The story in the song is TRUE.
You need to "rewind" the song when the site comes up. Enjoy.

http://music.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=m...

by: trwrebel

02-22-2010 @ 7:34pm

I think this song (Rosanna) by Marcus Hummon says more than a 1000 debates or sermons on this topic. The story in the song is TRUE.
You need to "rewind" the song when the site comes up. Enjoy.

http://music.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=m...

by: mjbickmore

02-22-2010 @ 8:52pm

Sorry, but we should be strictly enforcing our borders. Furthermore, children of deported immigrants should go with them and not allow their family's to be separated. We should change our laws to curtail this ridiculous birthright citizenship, as should should naturally maintain their parents' citizenship status.

by: mjbickmore

02-22-2010 @ 8:52pm

Sorry, but we should be strictly enforcing our borders. Furthermore, children of deported immigrants should go with them and not allow their family's to be separated. We should change our laws to curtail this ridiculous birthright citizenship, as should should naturally maintain their parents' citizenship status.

by: duhsciple

02-23-2010 @ 1:02am

All arriving immigrants since 1492 should return home to their nations of origin, along with their children? Sounds complicated

by: duhsciple

02-23-2010 @ 1:02am

All arriving immigrants since 1492 should return home to their nations of origin, along with their children? Sounds complicated

by: ckgmail

02-23-2010 @ 12:13pm

Should there be no room for compassion in immigration policy?

by: ckgmail

02-23-2010 @ 12:13pm

Should there be no room for compassion in immigration policy?

by: ckgmail

02-23-2010 @ 12:17pm

Actually, there are a good many points of agreement between libertarians and progressives: the drug war and free speech to name a couple. The first amendment in general though some libertarians and some progressives would part company on the interpretation of the religion clauses. Probably more.

by: ckgmail

02-23-2010 @ 12:17pm

Actually, there are a good many points of agreement between libertarians and progressives: the drug war and free speech to name a couple. The first amendment in general though some libertarians and some progressives would part company on the interpretation of the religion clauses. Probably more.

by: GlenPeterson

02-23-2010 @ 1:24pm

The children of immigrants and child immigrants are a huge reason why I believe that we must work toward comprehensive immigration reform as a moral, Christian issue.

by: GlenPeterson

02-23-2010 @ 1:24pm

The children of immigrants and child immigrants are a huge reason why I believe that we must work toward comprehensive immigration reform as a moral, Christian issue.

by: SpareChange

02-23-2010 @ 2:30pm

"Should there be no room for compassion in immigration policy?"

Uh, let me see if I got this right...

Crossing the border illegally in China, Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. will get you either shot, detained indefinately, thrown into a political prison to rot, never heard from again.

Crossing the border illegally in the U.S. gets you a job, a drivers license, a social security card, welfare, food stamps, credit cards, subsidized rent or a loan to buy a house, free education, free health care, a lobbyist in Washington, billions of dollars of public documents printed in your language, the right to carry your country's flag while you protest that you don't get enough respect, and you can vote!

Where's the compassion?!?

by: SpareChange

02-23-2010 @ 2:30pm

"Should there be no room for compassion in immigration policy?"

Uh, let me see if I got this right...

Crossing the border illegally in China, Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. will get you either shot, detained indefinately, thrown into a political prison to rot, never heard from again.

Crossing the border illegally in the U.S. gets you a job, a drivers license, a social security card, welfare, food stamps, credit cards, subsidized rent or a loan to buy a house, free education, free health care, a lobbyist in Washington, billions of dollars of public documents printed in your language, the right to carry your country's flag while you protest that you don't get enough respect, and you can vote!

Where's the compassion?!?

by: Naomi &#39;Reynolds&#39; Brodock

02-24-2010 @ 1:46am

It seems to me that when evaluating our behavior and policies we shouldn't compare ourselves to the worst governments. It's like a bully saying that he isn't mean because he isn't as bad as Hitler.

All those things you listed, whether you agree with them or not, are offered to American Citizens - naturalized children of immigrants, some legal, some illegal. What makes us so superior to fellow human beings born in other countries just because we had the luck to be born to parents who immigrated a few generations back?

Maybe you are right, maybe nobody should inherently get those rights and protections. Maybe when each child is born they should be submitted to the rigorous difficulties of obtaining American citizenship, or citizenship in any developed nation for that matter. Would you want your children and grandchildren to have to face the hurdles immigrants do? Or worse yet, would you want them to face the life of abject poverty in underdeveloped nations? I recently became a mother for the first time, and I know that even if it meant deportation for me and separation from my child, I would have entered this country illegally to give my child the chance to be a naturalized citizen of a wealthy nation rather than see him suffer and starve.

by: Naomi &#39;Reynolds&#39; Brodock

02-24-2010 @ 1:46am

It seems to me that when evaluating our behavior and policies we shouldn't compare ourselves to the worst governments. It's like a bully saying that he isn't mean because he isn't as bad as Hitler.

All those things you listed, whether you agree with them or not, are offered to American Citizens - naturalized children of immigrants, some legal, some illegal. What makes us so superior to fellow human beings born in other countries just because we had the luck to be born to parents who immigrated a few generations back?

Maybe you are right, maybe nobody should inherently get those rights and protections. Maybe when each child is born they should be submitted to the rigorous difficulties of obtaining American citizenship, or citizenship in any developed nation for that matter. Would you want your children and grandchildren to have to face the hurdles immigrants do? Or worse yet, would you want them to face the life of abject poverty in underdeveloped nations? I recently became a mother for the first time, and I know that even if it meant deportation for me and separation from my child, I would have entered this country illegally to give my child the chance to be a naturalized citizen of a wealthy nation rather than see him suffer and starve.

by: ford49

02-24-2010 @ 4:20am

"...we should be strictly enforcing our borders."

"Manifest Destiny" raises its ugly head again...

So after the genocide of one people and the enslavement of another, now we sould be entitled to our unquestioned sanctuary in our "conquered" land...obscene does not begin to describe this logic.

by: ford49

02-24-2010 @ 4:20am

"...we should be strictly enforcing our borders."

"Manifest Destiny" raises its ugly head again...

So after the genocide of one people and the enslavement of another, now we sould be entitled to our unquestioned sanctuary in our "conquered" land...obscene does not begin to describe this logic.

by: ckgmail

02-24-2010 @ 11:15am

God does not grade on the curve. What China, North Korea, etc do is not relevant to the justice of another country's immigration policy. The stuff in your second paragraph sounds like it come straight from Glen Beck or that guy who used to issue immigration rants on CNN.

For Christians, treatment of immigrants is more a moral than a political issue. Several places in the Torah have the provision to "treat the alien among you the same as a citizen."

by: ckgmail

02-24-2010 @ 11:15am

God does not grade on the curve. What China, North Korea, etc do is not relevant to the justice of another country's immigration policy. The stuff in your second paragraph sounds like it come straight from Glen Beck or that guy who used to issue immigration rants on CNN.

For Christians, treatment of immigrants is more a moral than a political issue. Several places in the Torah have the provision to "treat the alien among you the same as a citizen."

by: WaveTossed

02-24-2010 @ 7:18pm

"Actually, there are a good many points of agreement between libertarians and progressives".

There are a lot of points of agreements between libertarians and progressives. Here is a website where a person can take "the world's smallest political quiz" and you'll see the intersection of these two types of viewpoints. Take this quiz; it's quite interesting.

http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

I once heard someone give a general (probably over-generalized) version of the "conservative/liberal" dichotomy:

Liberals: Government out of people's homes and bedrooms, and out of other countries. Government out of peoples' phones and computers. Government into people's businesses -- and now increasingly, into people's choices as far as diet, health, etc. (the so-called "war on obesity" as an example). Back in my day, liberals opposed a military draft. Nowadays, more and more liberals are supporting a military draft <eyes roll>

Conservatives: Government into people's homes and bedrooms, and into other countries. Government into peoples' phones and computers. Government out of people's businesses -- and out of people's choices as far as diet, health, etc. Mostly anti-draft (they were pro-draft during my day).

Libertarians/independents (like myself): government out of both our bedrooms, personal lives, our phones, computers, our businesses. And out of the affairs of other countries.

As for immigration, it's a mixed bag. I know some progressives who continue to shout along with many conservatives, "they're breaking the law; all they want are welfare, food stamps, medical benefits, etc. Send them back to Mexico (or wherever)" As much as I love Ron Paul and I originally supported him for President, the one issue that I emphatically disagree with him is immigration. He's from Texas and even he has to get re-elected each year. If you're from Texas and are a politician, then you have to be anti-immigrant; that's a fact of life. Myself, I'm mainly with the Cato Institute's views on immigration, which posits for immigration reform so that more immigrants can come to our country to work (which is what the vast majority of them wish to do).

by: WaveTossed

02-24-2010 @ 7:18pm

"Actually, there are a good many points of agreement between libertarians and progressives".

There are a lot of points of agreements between libertarians and progressives. Here is a website where a person can take "the world's smallest political quiz" and you'll see the intersection of these two types of viewpoints. Take this quiz; it's quite interesting.

http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

I once heard someone give a general (probably over-generalized) version of the "conservative/liberal" dichotomy:

Liberals: Government out of people's homes and bedrooms, and out of other countries. Government out of peoples' phones and computers. Government into people's businesses -- and now increasingly, into people's choices as far as diet, health, etc. (the so-called "war on obesity" as an example). Back in my day, liberals opposed a military draft. Nowadays, more and more liberals are supporting a military draft <eyes roll>

Conservatives: Government into people's homes and bedrooms, and into other countries. Government into peoples' phones and computers. Government out of people's businesses -- and out of people's choices as far as diet, health, etc. Mostly anti-draft (they were pro-draft during my day).

Libertarians/independents (like myself): government out of both our bedrooms, personal lives, our phones, computers, our businesses. And out of the affairs of other countries.

As for immigration, it's a mixed bag. I know some progressives who continue to shout along with many conservatives, "they're breaking the law; all they want are welfare, food stamps, medical benefits, etc. Send them back to Mexico (or wherever)" As much as I love Ron Paul and I originally supported him for President, the one issue that I emphatically disagree with him is immigration. He's from Texas and even he has to get re-elected each year. If you're from Texas and are a politician, then you have to be anti-immigrant; that's a fact of life. Myself, I'm mainly with the Cato Institute's views on immigration, which posits for immigration reform so that more immigrants can come to our country to work (which is what the vast majority of them wish to do).

by: WaveTossed

02-24-2010 @ 7:22pm

"Crossing the border illegally in China, Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. will get you either shot, detained indefinately, thrown into a political prison to rot, never heard from again.

"Crossing the border illegally in the U.S. gets you a job,"

Are you trying to say that perhaps the U.S. should be more like China, Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Cuba, etc?

by: WaveTossed

02-24-2010 @ 7:22pm

"Crossing the border illegally in China, Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. will get you either shot, detained indefinately, thrown into a political prison to rot, never heard from again.

"Crossing the border illegally in the U.S. gets you a job,"

Are you trying to say that perhaps the U.S. should be more like China, Iran, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Cuba, etc?

by: ckgmail

02-24-2010 @ 11:50pm

I clicked the link and took the test. Their rating of where I am politically did not surprise me. I tend toward but am not a thorough going pacifist. I am ambivalent about the draft because I think, with others, that if we had a really universal draft we would be much less likely to get entangled in military adventures. What is the purpose of a professional army? To wage war. I'll qualify that a bit. I was proud of our military presence in Haiti to help preserve order after the quake. But I hope we get the heck out of there ASAP. Our military hardly ever leaves a place. Germany 65 years. South Korea 60 years. We left Vietnam because we had to. I doubt I will live long enough to see the end of our military presence in Iraq or Afghanistan, or, God forbid, Iran.

by: ckgmail

02-24-2010 @ 11:50pm

I clicked the link and took the test. Their rating of where I am politically did not surprise me. I tend toward but am not a thorough going pacifist. I am ambivalent about the draft because I think, with others, that if we had a really universal draft we would be much less likely to get entangled in military adventures. What is the purpose of a professional army? To wage war. I'll qualify that a bit. I was proud of our military presence in Haiti to help preserve order after the quake. But I hope we get the heck out of there ASAP. Our military hardly ever leaves a place. Germany 65 years. South Korea 60 years. We left Vietnam because we had to. I doubt I will live long enough to see the end of our military presence in Iraq or Afghanistan, or, God forbid, Iran.

by: WaveTossed

02-25-2010 @ 2:30pm

"I am ambivalent about the draft because I think, with others, that if we had a really universal draft we would be much less likely to get entangled in military adventures."

Not true. During the Vietnam war, one of the facets that allowed LBJ to continue it as long as he did was the fact that he could draft as much cannon-fodder as he wished.

Anti-war people who think that restoring the draft might be a good idea should study the anti-war movement during the Vietnam war. When there is a draft, then there can be everlasting war.

I believe that today's liberals/progressives are far too trusting of government power. Power corrupts, and especially, government power corrupts. My father used to say jokingly that "what we need is a benevolent dictatorship." The problem of course (as my father knew) was that once you have a dictatorship, it won't be benevolent. The same goes for concentrated government power. Does anyone truly want to go back to government wire-tapping, Gitmo, torture, and similar things?

by: WaveTossed

02-25-2010 @ 2:30pm

"I am ambivalent about the draft because I think, with others, that if we had a really universal draft we would be much less likely to get entangled in military adventures."

Not true. During the Vietnam war, one of the facets that allowed LBJ to continue it as long as he did was the fact that he could draft as much cannon-fodder as he wished.

Anti-war people who think that restoring the draft might be a good idea should study the anti-war movement during the Vietnam war. When there is a draft, then there can be everlasting war.

I believe that today's liberals/progressives are far too trusting of government power. Power corrupts, and especially, government power corrupts. My father used to say jokingly that "what we need is a benevolent dictatorship." The problem of course (as my father knew) was that once you have a dictatorship, it won't be benevolent. The same goes for concentrated government power. Does anyone truly want to go back to government wire-tapping, Gitmo, torture, and similar things?

by: ckgmail

02-25-2010 @ 6:42pm

But remember what finally ended the Vietnam war. U S forces weren't decisively defeated militarily. It was the uproar at home. The draft brought about the uproar. There was no groundswell against the Iraq war. The only ones fighting over there (from the US) were those who had volunteered to fight.

I am ambivalent about the draft. And if there iver is a draft, I hope it is truly universal. Not one that can be dodged with educational deferments etc.

by: ckgmail

02-25-2010 @ 6:42pm

But remember what finally ended the Vietnam war. U S forces weren't decisively defeated militarily. It was the uproar at home. The draft brought about the uproar. There was no groundswell against the Iraq war. The only ones fighting over there (from the US) were those who had volunteered to fight.

I am ambivalent about the draft. And if there iver is a draft, I hope it is truly universal. Not one that can be dodged with educational deferments etc.

by: SpareChange

02-25-2010 @ 8:35pm

"It seems to me that when evaluating our behavior and policies we shouldn't compare ourselves to the worst governments."

Sorry, substitute in Canada or Switzerland...etc. Either way, no other country on the face of this earth provides no-questions-asked benefits the way we do.

"Maybe when each child is born they should be submitted to the rigorous difficulties of obtaining American citizenship"

Interesting, but then who would pay for the $40k debt each of my children is saddled with from birth as part of the national debt...which is part of the benefits listed above???

by: SpareChange

02-25-2010 @ 8:35pm

"It seems to me that when evaluating our behavior and policies we shouldn't compare ourselves to the worst governments."

Sorry, substitute in Canada or Switzerland...etc. Either way, no other country on the face of this earth provides no-questions-asked benefits the way we do.

"Maybe when each child is born they should be submitted to the rigorous difficulties of obtaining American citizenship"

Interesting, but then who would pay for the $40k debt each of my children is saddled with from birth as part of the national debt...which is part of the benefits listed above???

by: ckgmail

02-25-2010 @ 8:42pm

But remember what finally ended the Vietnam war. U S forces weren't decisively defeated militarily. It was the uproar at home. The draft brought about the uproar. There was no groundswell against the Iraq war. The only ones fighting over there (from the US) were those who had volunteered to fight.

I am ambivalent about the draft. And if there iver is a draft, I hope it is truly universal. Not one that can be dodged with educational deferments etc.

And may I remind you, sadly, that we have not gotten away from government wire-tapping, Gitmo, etc.

by: ckgmail

02-25-2010 @ 8:42pm

But remember what finally ended the Vietnam war. U S forces weren't decisively defeated militarily. It was the uproar at home. The draft brought about the uproar. There was no groundswell against the Iraq war. The only ones fighting over there (from the US) were those who had volunteered to fight.

I am ambivalent about the draft. And if there iver is a draft, I hope it is truly universal. Not one that can be dodged with educational deferments etc.

And may I remind you, sadly, that we have not gotten away from government wire-tapping, Gitmo, etc.

by: SpareChange

02-25-2010 @ 10:35pm

"It seems to me that when evaluating our behavior and policies we shouldn't compare ourselves to the worst governments."

Sorry, substitute in Canada or Switzerland...etc. Either way, no other country on the face of this earth provides no-questions-asked benefits the way we do.

"Maybe when each child is born they should be submitted to the rigorous difficulties of obtaining American citizenship"

Interesting, but then who would pay for the $40k debt each of my children is saddled with from birth as part of the national debt...which is part of the benefits listed above???

by: SpareChange

02-25-2010 @ 10:35pm

"It seems to me that when evaluating our behavior and policies we shouldn't compare ourselves to the worst governments."

Sorry, substitute in Canada or Switzerland...etc. Either way, no other country on the face of this earth provides no-questions-asked benefits the way we do.

"Maybe when each child is born they should be submitted to the rigorous difficulties of obtaining American citizenship"

Interesting, but then who would pay for the $40k debt each of my children is saddled with from birth as part of the national debt...which is part of the benefits listed above???