Health Care and Bipartisanship in the Balance

Favorite line so far today..... "I Don't Count My Time Because I'm The President."

" ... the bottom line, as some commentators have noted, is that the president and Democrats want a bill to pass, and Republicans don't."

Wow, I can't believe you wrote that. What an unbelievably ridiculous statement.

Nice you chose that particular commentator.

Pass the bill!! Damn the consequences!!

Please.
*t

Don't pass the bill and damn the bigger consequences!!!

you just covered up my silly bumper sticker with one of your own.

It's kind of like that Geico commercial where he thought he had heard the most ridiculous ring tone, only to wait 5 minutes and hear a real one.

;)
*t

What if we just get rid of career/ in the pocket of special interests/ power hungry/only care about getting re-elected politicians altogether? Could we please just introduce term limits across the board - one extended term for everyone. You get one shot to make a difference then you are out. One can dream right?

YES. While we're dreaming --

Let's change ballot procedures so one can approve as many candidates as one likes in a particular race. No overvotes. Then we'll start to see the true strengh of third (and fourth) party candidates. Maybe it'll stop being a zero-sum game between Reps and Dems.

The issues are very complicated, and they are moral as well. As a Christian, for me it boils down a few issues:

1. Causes of the current problems
2. Morality of government providing services
3. Obfuscation of the issues

Briefly, government interference in health care is responsible for most of the problems today. The Dems blame evil insurance companies, the Repubs blame the evil trial lawyers. While there is some truth to those positions, the REAL culprit is government interference in the doctor-patient relationship (or should I say, the provider-consumer relationship). "Health care" is like any other commodity/service in that it is subject to the natural laws of supply and demand. Anytime government interferes in the marketplace, it increases costs and lowers quality. So, getting the government OUT of health care as much as possible will reverse many of the biggest challenges the system faces.

It is not a legitimate function of civil government to "provide" services. It is the function of government to protect personal Liberty and to promote Justice. Big government can only exist at the expense of economic and personal liberty, and it always results in tyranny. The more government exercises control over people through confiscation of wealth, redistribution of that wealth, and regulating (i.e., limiting and decreasing the quality of while increasing costs of) services, the less personal freedom we have. Government is NOT God.

If the government would stop meddling in our consumer affairs (such as doctor-patient transactions), and stop messing up our economy as it has, more people would be able to afford quality health care, and more affordable quality health care would be available. The free market is an outgrowth of God's Natural Law, and we violate His Natural Law to our detriment. Unfortunately, today's church does NOT teach His Natural Laws of commerce (which includes health care). The doctor has the right to provide services without coercion or interference from the government, and the patient has the right to contract with the doctor for those services. It is no different than buying groceries at the store. Caveat Emptor, and if you don't have wisdom in financial transactions (whether they be groceries, auto repair, or medical), then ask God and He will give it (James 1:5). But please don't presume to demand that the government force your fellow citizens to bear your load. That is stealing by tyranny (i.e., "slavery"), and stealing is wrong, no matter what your political persuasion is.

To recap: Cause: big government interference and regulation. Solution: Remove the government interference and regulation.
Unfortunately, neither political party has the desire (or sense!) to do this. God is not mocked, and His Natural Laws cannot be violated by Man without consequence.

Blessings! :)

amen to that!

Well according to Pat Robertson-and everyone knows he knows it all- the American People don't want the bill to pass. (I caught him today as I was channel surfing and watched until I was in danger of hurting my television.)

Who is listening out there. I voted Dem for the first time ever, because I realized, my personal pockets aren't deep enough, to love my neighbor, let alone my own un-insured but otherwise responsible family members to pay for all their health care and hospital stays as the story of the Good Samaritan suggests.

A local Tea Party organizer recently stated on our local television newcast, "it is the goodness of the American people to take a dish to their neighbor when times are tough that will get us through without raising taxes."

I didn't catch her name, but I wanted to. I had a handful of bills, I wanted to forward on to her for my daughter, whose past medication needs were just about $700.00 a month. We paid for her housing because her invitation to live in a homeless shelter would have exacerbated her illness. Try doing that on a teacher's salary. We are the lucky ones. We were able to keep her safe while she recovered. Seven years later the toll on our own retirement is minimal compared to alternative options as she is stable and functioning and self supporting.
The sad things is had she had adequate health insurance to begin with, she would have never spent 7 years unable to work. She had to interrupt medications because she could not afford them, and she had a huge huge set back.

I wonder how many people in homeless shelters or on the streets today could be functioning adults today, had they had adequate coverage.

The cost of doing nothing is far greater.

I was rigidly conservative until God graciously let us experience the horrors of the last 10 years with my daughter. May others, who see only dollars, realize the human side of this issue and seek the heart of God on it.

Could we be a bit partisan in the articles??? Republicans did not try to jam the bill through at midnight, nor give a couple of states extra incentives to go along with the bill. Be fair.

I have been a Registered Nurse for 30 plus years. I have seen too many babies die, in this "richest country in the world" because their parents can not afford adequate care or medicine.
I TOTALLY disagree with your premise that health care should be a free market enterprise. That leaves way too many preventable deaths and disabilities that harm ALL of us.
You also neglected to mention the sin nature of man, and the fact that the sin and greed of the insurance companies is what has gotten us into this mess to begin with. Without government regulation, they are totally free to continue to refuse and deny care. This is NOT the kind of freedom I want!!! I want the kind of freedom where I know I do not have to worry about loosing everything I own and going bankrupt, from one illness or injury. The kind of freedom that citizens of every other industrialized nation of the world enjoy.

Ever since health care has started to be run like business rather than a humanly needed public service there have been problems. No one should ever be allowed to profit, by causing someone else's death. That is immoral.
This debate has recently come home to me in a more personal way, as I suffered an injury in January that has meant approx 3 months of rehab time and time off work. I am in serious danger of loosing my own health insurance, as my disability income does not stretch far enough to cover the mortgage, 1000s of dollars in medical bills that are still my responsibility, even with so called good insurance, and health insurance premiums of around $800 a month on top of all that.
I would give anything to be a Canadian right now!!

While you lament the way modern politics function, saying, "What will win the next election is more important than what policy changes will benefit the country and most Americans", you forget that the country was structured so that this would be the case. Like it or not, the governing officials are supposed to represent the people in the districts that elected them. If the electors wanted this change, politicians would be more likely to approve it.

Change has to start much lower down than the federal government. Change has to start in the way we Americans think about people who aren't covered by health care. Most of my conservative friends claim that all people on welfare are lazy addicts. They view universal health care as allowing these people to continue to live destructively and drain the resources of our country. Until we change this stereotype, no real change can happen.

I can't believe that somebody as smart as Jim actually wrote: "... the bottom line, as some commentators have noted, is that the president and Democrats want a bill to pass, and Republicans don't."
1) On its face it is not true...Republicans have said repeatedly they want to pass a bill but not this bill. And a huge majority of the American people in poll after poll agree with the Republicans
2) If Mr. Obama and his Progressive cronies are so committed they had a full year during which they didn't need a single Republican vote to pass anything and they failed because of bickering WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY (yes, I know, I am shouting!) Nobody wants to talk about the war between centerist Democrats and far left Progressives within the Democratic Party but it there for all to see.
3) This may come as a shock to many Sojo types, but bipartisanship does not mean Republicans doing what Democrats tell them to do. Something about compromise? Hum?
4) So if the Dems could have passed this but didn't why all the calls for bipartisanship? Political cover. They know the most Americans don't want this bill and they are afraid too many folks will remember this cram down come November. Much better to be abe to say, "(Bluster, Bluster) Well, the Republicans voted for it, too!"

I think Sojo can do a little better than the simple rehashing of Left wing propoganda.

Since you are an RN, how little are you willing to work for? I mean, if you love it so much, why not just do it for free so you can help others? Then health care would be really affordable! :)

Seriously, you and other health care professionals work for a paycheck. Yes, you enjoy the work, and it is a noble and honorable profession. So is mine, and I do it to make a living for my wife and five kids (and to pay for the health insurance that I desire out of my own pocket). I enjoy helping others in what I do, but I do it primarily to earn my way (if you do not work you shall not eat - 2 Thess. 3:10).

Please do not be fooled: health care has always been a business, as is any other profession out there. While there are kind souls that will donate services, including health care, the motive for engaging in any type of work is so that we can afford to provide for ourselves and our families. That is "economics". If you can afford to donate your services full time and permanently, I applaud you (and God for providing you the opportunity to do so). Most folks cannot.

The problem is not that health care is a business; the problem is that government interferes in that business, causing prices to increase and quality to decrease. The Canadian system is terrible in terms of quality or delivery (which includes the timing). The British system is worse, and these systemic problems are well documented and increase patient death and suffering. Here's two articles just today:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1253393...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style...

Please show me anywhere in the world where a government-provided health care system delivers superior medicine like ours (with all its imperfections) and maximum personal Liberty (this includes low rates of taxation to pay for it, for taxation is an infringement on personal Liberty). (Actually, I suspect Singapore might, based on this article: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/01/singa... , but it comes at a price: limited personal Liberty. Is tyranny, even with a velvet glove such as Singapore has, worth it? Doesn't history show that tyranny always claims many millions of more lives than sickness does? Tyranny violates God's Law of individual Liberty, and so its results are catastrophic as well.)

The problem is NOT that health care is run like a business, as you say. The problem is that government has forced fascism onto the system over the past 40 years, which has CAUSED the very problems you encounter on a day-to-day basis. You may be an RN, but you do not understand human transactions, which is economics and affects all industry, including yours. So it is not run like a business, it is run like a bureaucracy (which is really a euphemism for fascism), which is why there are cost problems and quality problems.

Yes, the sin nature of man affects all industries, including the health care industry. It also affects (greatly!) the political industry, which tries to repeal the laws of supply and demand when it comes to health care (and all commerce), which is the major cause of most of the major economic problems we have, including the economic problems of the health care industry. You rightly pose the dilemma as an economic one ("I have seen too many babies die, in this "richest country in the world" because their parents can not afford adequate care or medicine.") Why can't they afford it? Because the government has changed our health care system from a free market based one (i.e. biblically-based) to a fascist one (i.e., atheist/Marxist based). Again, we ignore God's natural laws of commerce between individuals (or groups of individuals, such as corporations) to our own detriment. Fascism is evil. Look at the health care systems of China, North Korea, and Cuba, just to name a few. Increased government regulation ALWAYS results in higher costs, less efficiency, and decreased quality. Why? Because it violates God's natural laws of economics. Always remember the law of unintended consequences; the government regulation that we have had imposed on us over the years has resulted in the current mess we have. More government equals more problems.

Blessings :)

"But please don't presume to demand that the government force your fellow citizens to bear your load. That is stealing by tyranny (i.e., "slavery"), and stealing is wrong, no matter what your political persuasion is."

Government is not God but a tool which can be used for good or evil. Godly government, as set out in the bible, always used a portion of the tithe or tax to care for those who could not care for themselves. When the government became ungodly, the overseers, were using the gain or tithe or tax, to get fat and for their own good. I see a lot of fat politicians, who push and shove and strive for the best pastures as Ezekiel 34 talks about. I see health care insurance industries making huge huge profits. They are their own law, picking and choosing who they will care for, and taking advantage of hard working, paying people to decide who should qualify for adequate health care coverage stopping short of care that does not create profit.

James tells me to bear one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ.

A Godly nation will make sure we are fulfilling the Law of Christ, to love our neighbor as ourselves.

Republicans have said repeatedly they want to pass a bill but not this bill. And a huge majority of the American people in poll after poll agree with the Republicans...

And if you believe that one ... In fact, the GOP base said immediately after the 2008 general election that it had no inclination or intention to work with Obama. None. And when people learned just what was in the bill, they actually favored it.

This may come as a shock to many Sojo types, but bipartisanship does not mean Republicans doing what Democrats tell them to do. Something about compromise? Hum?

Again, GOP leadership, which actually became more conservative in 2008, said openly that it wasn't interested in compromise. When Sen. Jim DeMint of South Carolina talked about "[breaking]" Obama, that should have given people a clue.

I see the Republican dissembling mouthpieces are here in full force...same old lies, same old excuses, same old failed ideas.

No thank you.

That dream will turn into a nightmare right quick because, with term limits, even less will get done in government than it does now. No one will know how to pass bills, deliberate, meet with people in committees, answer to constituents -- and all of that takes time to master. Besides, under such a system only the wealthiest people can take the time off work to run for office anyway.

Jim, thanks for choosing the photo you used. It speaks perfectly to the "entitlement" mentality. I'll post it next to my other photo of "Everyone Deserves to Own a House"...which you should know is precisely one of the main reasons we are in this economic housing mess.

I am not sure of where your concept of Godly government comes from. Joseph ruled as second in command over Egypt, bringing in an uncommon harvest for 3 years to the Pharoh's storehouse. God used his style of Government to save a people.

I earnestly pray that you will always be able to care for your family and that you will not have any catastrophic illness or incapacity to pay your premiums.
I worked for a pain management doctor, who collected from Personal Injury Insurance for treatment. Many people, in car accidents were never able to fully recover or return to work due to chronic intense pain. They lost their homes, health insurance, and often marriages. If you think you've got it all figured out, life will throw you a curve. $250,000 in coverage doesn't go far for chronic ongoing issues.

I know I was once as hard line as you are. I ask for mercy for you as I had to learn the tenets of, "the poor you will always have with you", and "in order to gain your life you must lose if for my sake," the hard way!

"Godly government, as set out in the bible, always used a portion of the tithe or tax to care for those who could not care for themselves."

Uh, not really. It was Israel and its priesthood that used the tithes in this fashion. I do not see God granting this right to civil government in the New Covenant. The only example of something close to what you are describing that I see is Joseph in Israel, and the results of that were clear to see that the God of Joseph was the One True God. Let's not confuse Joseph of His love for God with our current civil government!!!

Joseph's motives were to obey and glorify God. Our current government's motives is to pay lip service to Him and thwart Him and His natural laws at ever turn. Do you really think the God of Joseph is going to reward such hearts?

I'm no fan of health insurance industries, believe me, but there are causes and effects to the dynamics of life. Yes, the sin nature affects all industries. But so does fascism, which is sinful as well. And when government regulates industries instead of upholding lawful contracts between parties (fraud is not a lawful contract), then there will be unintended consequences. Government began to set aside legally binding contracts and forcing payouts and additional coverage. That caused prices to rise, and caused insurance companies to limit coverage. Why did they do it? Because lawyers were able to make it happen, and government went along with it. And I am certain there were some unscrupulous insurance companies as well, plenty of blame to go around. But here's the thing: Caveat Emptor. The consumer must take responsibility for the goods and services he is contracting for. When the government decides that is can dictate the terms of an agreement between parties, that is not freedom, it is tyranny. It will tell RN4kids how much he/she can earn. It will tell the patient what is covered and what is not. Read those two articles I posted above. Government regulation has brought us to this point and more government regulation will only make it worse! Please hear what I am saying: businesses exist to make a profit by providing goods and services to those who wish to pay for it. Profit is not bad. Greed is bad. Not all profit is greed. Government confuses us by labeling profit as greed, then proposes tyranny as the solution! As history shows, tyranny always produces death and destruction. Liberty produces life and prosperity. This is God's natural law and government cannot repeal it.

A great Christian resource that explains this (for government schools will not!) is Biblical Economics in Comics, by Vic Lockman:

http://www.americanvision.com/biblicaleconomics...

Jesus said "you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free" (John 8:32) It is the knowledge of truth that leads to freedom, because truth is constant and never changes. We have to learn God's biblical truths about human interaction, work, and economics and how our government has perverted those things to our detriment before we can regain our freedom, including our health care freedom!

Blessings :)

Thank you Dig. I also was flabbergasted when I read that line in Mr. Wallis's analysis. "Ridiculous" is the appropriate word.

I am self employed and recently have had to let my family's health insurance lapse because I cannot afford the premium. I hope we don't have a problem either, and I trust the Lord to take care of us as He sees fit. I already posted about Godly government and Joseph below.

Please do not mistake my demeanor as being "hard". I simply believe that God's natural laws of economics cannot be violated and still provide positive results. He created the laws of sowing and reaping; by violating His laws of justice and mercy, including in the realm of health care economics, we have arrived at the current state of health care. More violations of His natural laws of justice and mercy in the same way cannot result in reversing the results that we arrived at by doing the same! Bad sowing results in bad reaping.

I posted a link to a book below that explains much of this in detail from a biblical standpoint. I encourage results oriented Christians to study it so we can effect the needed changes that our politicians do not know and will not do, for they do NOT seek God's face nor Wisdom, and He therefore will not reward them, and we will continue to suffer at the hands of ungodly rulers.

Blessings :)

For every horror story in Canada or the UK, I could give you 10 or more similar horror stories that happen right in the US. So that argument means nothing to me. I have good friends ( also nurses) whose elderly parents live in London, and they get great care, and are very satisfied with it. I have worked with Canadian and Danish nurses on international mission trips, and they were appalled at the poor standards of care and lack of accessibility, compared to what they enjoy in their countries when they came to the US.
Why could their parents not afford it? Gee I don't know. When a 2 year old with leukemia is denied re-admission for a bone marrow transplant, that is the ONLY thing that can possibly save her life, because there is a $300,000 outstanding bill that the insurance refused to pay....the dad came to me with tears in his eyes. He obviously did not have that kind of money hanging out in his checking account!!! People like you who claim that every one should just pay their own way, have obviously never had an experience like this. How would you feel if it was your child?? The free market system that you advocate, would be even more free to refuse and deny care, if there were no laws to prevent that from happening. No thank you!!

We do not expect public services to be massively profitable. Yes people need to be paid, but no expects the public schools or the fire department to rake in millions in profits, like the insurance companies do. I believe all health care should be non profit, and publicly funded, as do most of the doctors and nurses I work with.
I am more than willing to sacrifice some of my so called "personal liberty" if it meant that people like me, that child, and everyone else would be covered and protected.