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Mixed Victory: A Better Poverty Measure Counts More as Poor

Eight million more Americans are now in poverty. Well

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by: Shawn_Fremstad

03-08-2010 @ 2:32pm

It's too soon to say whether the new measure will result in "eight million more Americans" counted as experiencing income poverty. Previous estimates had found increases under the new approach, however, Census has been careful to explain that the proposed measure is "different along some dimensions from any estimates that have been produced to date," so these estimates will change. I think the most reasonable guesstimate right now is that the measure produces a somewhat higher national poverty rate, but we won't know for sure until Census provides updated estimates.

Also, while it's true that the current measure, which I agree is deeply flawed, "doesn't account for rising housing, health-care, and child-care costs," it's arguable whether the proposed measure does a good job of accounting for these costs, especially health-care and child-care costs. While the new approach would subtract amounts parents actually spend out-of-pocket on child care, it wouldn't make any adjustment for parents who need quality child care but can't afford it; the same is likely to be the case for health care (although Census suggests it's open to looking at an adjustment for people who are uninsured and simply can't afford to get the care they need, an adjustment we should be urging them to make).

You note that the current measure doesn't address the fact that "it costs a lot more to live in cities like D.C., L.A., and Boston." However, I think some caution is in order before progressives conclude that adjusting the national poverty measure based on geographic differences in certain living costs is essential. One major problem is that the approaches that Census has taken to geographic adjustment to date could result in poverty thresholds for some of the poorest states, including Louisiana, Mississippi, West Virginia, and Arkansas, that are actually lower than the current poverty thresholds.

Yes, housing may cost less, say, in Tate County, Mississippi--an example the Center for American Progress has given for housing cost adjustment. But considerable other evidence suggests that low-income Mississippians are considerably worse off in economic and social terms than low-income Washingtonians. Despite low rents, Mississippi has the nation's highest level of food insecurity and hunger (17.4%), while the relatively high-rent Washington has a considerably lower rate of food insecurity (11.1%). Similarly, the Delta region of Mississippi that Tate County is located in scores lower on the <a href = "see http://measureofamerica.org/wp-content/uploads/... Human Development Index ("a numerical measure of well-being and opportunity made up of health, education, and income indicators") than any other region of Mississippi, a state which itself scores dead last among the 50 states on the index. Finally, the Congressional District that Tate County is located in, Mississippi's 1st, ranks 416th out of 436 districts on the American HDI; by comparison, the Congressional District that Seattle is located in, Washington's 7th, ranks 28th out of 436 districts. You might want to ask yourself, if you were given the same amount of low income and the choice of growing up in either Seattle or Tate County, Mississippi, which one would you choose: 28th or 416th?

Related to this is an important question about whether geographic adjustment should be part of any measure that is used for the purpose of a national poverty reduction target. Do we want to bring people in Tate County, Mississippi up to a national standard, or should we set the bar lower for because rents are lower there? I'm strongly in favor of a national standard for Tate County, Mississippi, not a dismal Mississippi one. Similarly, poverty estimates produced by CLASP in November 2009 using Census' own on-line calculator for producing alternative poverty measures found that West Virginia's poverty measure would be lower than Massachusetts' (12.3% vs. 14.2%). I have a hard time believing that the West Virginia social and economic model does a better job of fighting poverty than the Massachusetts one, and other direct measures of deprivation and economic don't support that conclusion. These numbers are likely to change somewhat as Census refines its measure, but they need to change quite a bit to be consistent with what most data tells us about geographic differences in deprivation, and what state-level social and economic policies work best in reducing poverty.

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by: kansasmennonite

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By giving the rich tax breaks of course!!! If my math works out we could actually pay the rich and increase the wealth of the poor! It's a new theory I'm working on with some libertarian friends. It's like the prosperity gospel for the rich!

by: fundamentalist

03-04-2010 @ 4:44pm

Reduce poverty, yes! But how? Do we make the poor dependent on the state for handouts, or create better paying jobs?

by: Ngchen

03-04-2010 @ 6:30pm

Maybe aim for job creation, while at the same time patching up the safety net that barely exists today?

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by: Shawn_Fremstad

03-08-2010 @ 12:32pm

It's too soon to say whether the new measure will result in "eight million more Americans" counted as experiencing income poverty. Previous estimates had found increases under the new approach, however, Census has been careful to explain that the proposed measure is "different along some dimensions from any estimates that have been produced to date," so these estimates will change. I think the most reasonable guesstimate right now is that the measure produces a somewhat higher national poverty rate, but we won't know for sure until Census provides updated estimates.

Also, while it's true that the current measure, which I agree is deeply flawed, "doesn't account for rising housing, health-care, and child-care costs," it's arguable whether the proposed measure does a good job of accounting for these costs, especially health-care and child-care costs. While the new approach would subtract amounts parents actually spend out-of-pocket on child care, it wouldn't make any adjustment for parents who need quality child care but can't afford it; the same is likely to be the case for health care (although Census suggests it's open to looking at an adjustment for people who are uninsured and simply can't afford to get the care they need, an adjustment we should be urging them to make).

You note that the current measure doesn't address the fact that "it costs a lot more to live in cities like D.C., L.A., and Boston." However, I think some caution is in order before progressives conclude that adjusting the national poverty measure based on geographic differences in certain living costs is essential. One major problem is that the approaches that Census has taken to geographic adjustment to date could result in poverty thresholds for some of the poorest states, including Louisiana, Mississippi, West Virginia, and Arkansas, that are actually lower than the current poverty thresholds.

Yes, housing may cost less, say, in Tate County, Mississippi--an example the Center for American Progress has given for housing cost adjustment. But considerable other evidence suggests that low-income Mississippians are considerably worse off in economic and social terms than low-income Washingtonians. Despite low rents, Mississippi has the nation's highest level of food insecurity and hunger (17.4%), while the relatively high-rent Washington has a considerably lower rate of food insecurity (11.1%). Similarly, the Delta region of Mississippi that Tate County is located in scores lower on the <a href = "see http://measureofamerica.org/wp-content/uploads/... Human Development Index ("a numerical measure of well-being and opportunity made up of health, education, and income indicators") than any other region of Mississippi, a state which itself scores dead last among the 50 states on the index. Finally, the Congressional District that Tate County is located in, Mississippi's 1st, ranks 416th out of 436 districts on the American HDI; by comparison, the Congressional District that Seattle is located in, Washington's 7th, ranks 28th out of 436 districts. You might want to ask yourself, if you were given the same amount of low income and the choice of growing up in either Seattle or Tate County, Mississippi, which one would you choose: 28th or 416th?

Related to this is an important question about whether geographic adjustment should be part of any measure that is used for the purpose of a national poverty reduction target. Do we want to bring people in Tate County, Mississippi up to a national standard, or should we set the bar lower for because rents are lower there? I'm strongly in favor of a national standard for Tate County, Mississippi, not a dismal Mississippi one. Similarly, poverty estimates produced by CLASP in November 2009 using Census' own on-line calculator for producing alternative poverty measures found that West Virginia's poverty measure would be lower than Massachusetts' (12.3% vs. 14.2%). I have a hard time believing that the West Virginia social and economic model does a better job of fighting poverty than the Massachusetts one, and other direct measures of deprivation and economic don't support that conclusion. These numbers are likely to change somewhat as Census refines its measure, but they need to change quite a bit to be consistent with what most data tells us about geographic differences in deprivation, and what state-level social and economic policies work best in reducing poverty.

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by: Shawn_Fremstad

03-08-2010 @ 2:32pm

It's too soon to say whether the new measure will result in "eight million more Americans" counted as experiencing income poverty. Previous estimates had found increases under the new approach, however, Census has been careful to explain that the proposed measure is "different along some dimensions from any estimates that have been produced to date," so these estimates will change. I think the most reasonable guesstimate right now is that the measure produces a somewhat higher national poverty rate, but we won't know for sure until Census provides updated estimates.

Also, while it's true that the current measure, which I agree is deeply flawed, "doesn't account for rising housing, health-care, and child-care costs," it's arguable whether the proposed measure does a good job of accounting for these costs, especially health-care and child-care costs. While the new approach would subtract amounts parents actually spend out-of-pocket on child care, it wouldn't make any adjustment for parents who need quality child care but can't afford it; the same is likely to be the case for health care (although Census suggests it's open to looking at an adjustment for people who are uninsured and simply can't afford to get the care they need, an adjustment we should be urging them to make).

You note that the current measure doesn't address the fact that "it costs a lot more to live in cities like D.C., L.A., and Boston." However, I think some caution is in order before progressives conclude that adjusting the national poverty measure based on geographic differences in certain living costs is essential. One major problem is that the approaches that Census has taken to geographic adjustment to date could result in poverty thresholds for some of the poorest states, including Louisiana, Mississippi, West Virginia, and Arkansas, that are actually lower than the current poverty thresholds.

Yes, housing may cost less, say, in Tate County, Mississippi--an example the Center for American Progress has given for housing cost adjustment. But considerable other evidence suggests that low-income Mississippians are considerably worse off in economic and social terms than low-income Washingtonians. Despite low rents, Mississippi has the nation's highest level of food insecurity and hunger (17.4%), while the relatively high-rent Washington has a considerably lower rate of food insecurity (11.1%). Similarly, the Delta region of Mississippi that Tate County is located in scores lower on the <a href = "see http://measureofamerica.org/wp-content/uploads/... Human Development Index ("a numerical measure of well-being and opportunity made up of health, education, and income indicators") than any other region of Mississippi, a state which itself scores dead last among the 50 states on the index. Finally, the Congressional District that Tate County is located in, Mississippi's 1st, ranks 416th out of 436 districts on the American HDI; by comparison, the Congressional District that Seattle is located in, Washington's 7th, ranks 28th out of 436 districts. You might want to ask yourself, if you were given the same amount of low income and the choice of growing up in either Seattle or Tate County, Mississippi, which one would you choose: 28th or 416th?

Related to this is an important question about whether geographic adjustment should be part of any measure that is used for the purpose of a national poverty reduction target. Do we want to bring people in Tate County, Mississippi up to a national standard, or should we set the bar lower for because rents are lower there? I'm strongly in favor of a national standard for Tate County, Mississippi, not a dismal Mississippi one. Similarly, poverty estimates produced by CLASP in November 2009 using Census' own on-line calculator for producing alternative poverty measures found that West Virginia's poverty measure would be lower than Massachusetts' (12.3% vs. 14.2%). I have a hard time believing that the West Virginia social and economic model does a better job of fighting poverty than the Massachusetts one, and other direct measures of deprivation and economic don't support that conclusion. These numbers are likely to change somewhat as Census refines its measure, but they need to change quite a bit to be consistent with what most data tells us about geographic differences in deprivation, and what state-level social and economic policies work best in reducing poverty.

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03-06-2010 @ 12:04am

Of course we do! the only solution to poverty is for fewer than 1000 federal politicians to decide for poor people what's best for them. Anything else is simply unChristian.

by: fundamentalist

03-04-2010 @ 4:44pm

Reduce poverty, yes! But how? Do we make the poor dependent on the state for handouts, or create better paying jobs?

by: Ngchen

03-04-2010 @ 6:30pm

Maybe aim for job creation, while at the same time patching up the safety net that barely exists today?

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by: kansasmennonite

03-06-2010 @ 3:00am

By giving the rich tax breaks of course!!! If my math works out we could actually pay the rich and increase the wealth of the poor! It's a new theory I'm working on with some libertarian friends. It's like the prosperity gospel for the rich!

by: Lisa Belise

09-19-2010 @ 10:53pm

Taken from the US department of Health and Human Services website on 9/19/2010-

Q.Are the poverty thresholds calculated every year by multiplying the cost of an Agriculture Department food plan by three?

A. No. The "three-times-the-cost-of-the-food-plan" calculation was done only once, for the 1963 base year poverty thresholds, using the Agriculture Department's economy food plan. Poverty thresholds for years since 1963 have been updated for price changes only using the Consumer Price Index.

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by: Shawn_Fremstad

03-08-2010 @ 12:32pm

It's too soon to say whether the new measure will result in "eight million more Americans" counted as experiencing income poverty. Previous estimates had found increases under the new approach, however, Census has been careful to explain that the proposed measure is "different along some dimensions from any estimates that have been produced to date," so these estimates will change. I think the most reasonable guesstimate right now is that the measure produces a somewhat higher national poverty rate, but we won't know for sure until Census provides updated estimates.

Also, while it's true that the current measure, which I agree is deeply flawed, "doesn't account for rising housing, health-care, and child-care costs," it's arguable whether the proposed measure does a good job of accounting for these costs, especially health-care and child-care costs. While the new approach would subtract amounts parents actually spend out-of-pocket on child care, it wouldn't make any adjustment for parents who need quality child care but can't afford it; the same is likely to be the case for health care (although Census suggests it's open to looking at an adjustment for people who are uninsured and simply can't afford to get the care they need, an adjustment we should be urging them to make).

You note that the current measure doesn't address the fact that "it costs a lot more to live in cities like D.C., L.A., and Boston." However, I think some caution is in order before progressives conclude that adjusting the national poverty measure based on geographic differences in certain living costs is essential. One major problem is that the approaches that Census has taken to geographic adjustment to date could result in poverty thresholds for some of the poorest states, including Louisiana, Mississippi, West Virginia, and Arkansas, that are actually lower than the current poverty thresholds.

Yes, housing may cost less, say, in Tate County, Mississippi--an example the Center for American Progress has given for housing cost adjustment. But considerable other evidence suggests that low-income Mississippians are considerably worse off in economic and social terms than low-income Washingtonians. Despite low rents, Mississippi has the nation's highest level of food insecurity and hunger (17.4%), while the relatively high-rent Washington has a considerably lower rate of food insecurity (11.1%). Similarly, the Delta region of Mississippi that Tate County is located in scores lower on the <a href = "see http://measureofamerica.org/wp-content/uploads/... Human Development Index ("a numerical measure of well-being and opportunity made up of health, education, and income indicators") than any other region of Mississippi, a state which itself scores dead last among the 50 states on the index. Finally, the Congressional District that Tate County is located in, Mississippi's 1st, ranks 416th out of 436 districts on the American HDI; by comparison, the Congressional District that Seattle is located in, Washington's 7th, ranks 28th out of 436 districts. You might want to ask yourself, if you were given the same amount of low income and the choice of growing up in either Seattle or Tate County, Mississippi, which one would you choose: 28th or 416th?

Related to this is an important question about whether geographic adjustment should be part of any measure that is used for the purpose of a national poverty reduction target. Do we want to bring people in Tate County, Mississippi up to a national standard, or should we set the bar lower for because rents are lower there? I'm strongly in favor of a national standard for Tate County, Mississippi, not a dismal Mississippi one. Similarly, poverty estimates produced by CLASP in November 2009 using Census' own on-line calculator for producing alternative poverty measures found that West Virginia's poverty measure would be lower than Massachusetts' (12.3% vs. 14.2%). I have a hard time believing that the West Virginia social and economic model does a better job of fighting poverty than the Massachusetts one, and other direct measures of deprivation and economic don't support that conclusion. These numbers are likely to change somewhat as Census refines its measure, but they need to change quite a bit to be consistent with what most data tells us about geographic differences in deprivation, and what state-level social and economic policies work best in reducing poverty.

by: Lisa Belise

09-19-2010 @ 10:53pm

Taken from the US department of Health and Human Services website on 9/19/2010-

Q.Are the poverty thresholds calculated every year by multiplying the cost of an Agriculture Department food plan by three?

A. No. The "three-times-the-cost-of-the-food-plan" calculation was done only once, for the 1963 base year poverty thresholds, using the Agriculture Department's economy food plan. Poverty thresholds for years since 1963 have been updated for price changes only using the Consumer Price Index.

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03-06-2010 @ 12:04am

Of course we do! the only solution to poverty is for fewer than 1000 federal politicians to decide for poor people what's best for them. Anything else is simply unChristian.

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: fundamentalist

03-04-2010 @ 4:44pm

Reduce poverty, yes! But how? Do we make the poor dependent on the state for handouts, or create better paying jobs?

by: fundamentalist

03-04-2010 @ 4:44pm

Reduce poverty, yes! But how? Do we make the poor dependent on the state for handouts, or create better paying jobs?

by: Ngchen

03-04-2010 @ 6:30pm

Maybe aim for job creation, while at the same time patching up the safety net that barely exists today?

by: Ngchen

03-04-2010 @ 6:30pm

Maybe aim for job creation, while at the same time patching up the safety net that barely exists today?

by: xfree9

03-06-2010 @ 12:04am

Of course we do! the only solution to poverty is for fewer than 1000 federal politicians to decide for poor people what's best for them. Anything else is simply unChristian.

by: xfree9

03-06-2010 @ 12:04am

Of course we do! the only solution to poverty is for fewer than 1000 federal politicians to decide for poor people what's best for them. Anything else is simply unChristian.

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03-06-2010 @ 12:06am

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by: kansasmennonite

03-06-2010 @ 3:00am

By giving the rich tax breaks of course!!! If my math works out we could actually pay the rich and increase the wealth of the poor! It's a new theory I'm working on with some libertarian friends. It's like the prosperity gospel for the rich!

by: kansasmennonite

03-06-2010 @ 3:00am

By giving the rich tax breaks of course!!! If my math works out we could actually pay the rich and increase the wealth of the poor! It's a new theory I'm working on with some libertarian friends. It's like the prosperity gospel for the rich!

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by: Shawn_Fremstad

03-08-2010 @ 12:32pm

It's too soon to say whether the new measure will result in "eight million more Americans" counted as experiencing income poverty. Previous estimates had found increases under the new approach, however, Census has been careful to explain that the proposed measure is "different along some dimensions from any estimates that have been produced to date," so these estimates will change. I think the most reasonable guesstimate right now is that the measure produces a somewhat higher national poverty rate, but we won't know for sure until Census provides updated estimates.

Also, while it's true that the current measure, which I agree is deeply flawed, "doesn't account for rising housing, health-care, and child-care costs," it's arguable whether the proposed measure does a good job of accounting for these costs, especially health-care and child-care costs. While the new approach would subtract amounts parents actually spend out-of-pocket on child care, it wouldn't make any adjustment for parents who need quality child care but can't afford it; the same is likely to be the case for health care (although Census suggests it's open to looking at an adjustment for people who are uninsured and simply can't afford to get the care they need, an adjustment we should be urging them to make).

You note that the current measure doesn't address the fact that "it costs a lot more to live in cities like D.C., L.A., and Boston." However, I think some caution is in order before progressives conclude that adjusting the national poverty measure based on geographic differences in certain living costs is essential. One major problem is that the approaches that Census has taken to geographic adjustment to date could result in poverty thresholds for some of the poorest states, including Louisiana, Mississippi, West Virginia, and Arkansas, that are actually lower than the current poverty thresholds.

Yes, housing may cost less, say, in Tate County, Mississippi--an example the Center for American Progress has given for housing cost adjustment. But considerable other evidence suggests that low-income Mississippians are considerably worse off in economic and social terms than low-income Washingtonians. Despite low rents, Mississippi has the nation's highest level of food insecurity and hunger (17.4%), while the relatively high-rent Washington has a considerably lower rate of food insecurity (11.1%). Similarly, the Delta region of Mississippi that Tate County is located in scores lower on the <a href = "see http://measureofamerica.org/wp-content/uploads/... Human Development Index ("a numerical measure of well-being and opportunity made up of health, education, and income indicators") than any other region of Mississippi, a state which itself scores dead last among the 50 states on the index. Finally, the Congressional District that Tate County is located in, Mississippi's 1st, ranks 416th out of 436 districts on the American HDI; by comparison, the Congressional District that Seattle is located in, Washington's 7th, ranks 28th out of 436 districts. You might want to ask yourself, if you were given the same amount of low income and the choice of growing up in either Seattle or Tate County, Mississippi, which one would you choose: 28th or 416th?

Related to this is an important question about whether geographic adjustment should be part of any measure that is used for the purpose of a national poverty reduction target. Do we want to bring people in Tate County, Mississippi up to a national standard, or should we set the bar lower for because rents are lower there? I'm strongly in favor of a national standard for Tate County, Mississippi, not a dismal Mississippi one. Similarly, poverty estimates produced by CLASP in November 2009 using Census' own on-line calculator for producing alternative poverty measures found that West Virginia's poverty measure would be lower than Massachusetts' (12.3% vs. 14.2%). I have a hard time believing that the West Virginia social and economic model does a better job of fighting poverty than the Massachusetts one, and other direct measures of deprivation and economic don't support that conclusion. These numbers are likely to change somewhat as Census refines its measure, but they need to change quite a bit to be consistent with what most data tells us about geographic differences in deprivation, and what state-level social and economic policies work best in reducing poverty.

by: Shawn_Fremstad

03-08-2010 @ 12:32pm

It's too soon to say whether the new measure will result in "eight million more Americans" counted as experiencing income poverty. Previous estimates had found increases under the new approach, however, Census has been careful to explain that the proposed measure is "different along some dimensions from any estimates that have been produced to date," so these estimates will change. I think the most reasonable guesstimate right now is that the measure produces a somewhat higher national poverty rate, but we won't know for sure until Census provides updated estimates.

Also, while it's true that the current measure, which I agree is deeply flawed, "doesn't account for rising housing, health-care, and child-care costs," it's arguable whether the proposed measure does a good job of accounting for these costs, especially health-care and child-care costs. While the new approach would subtract amounts parents actually spend out-of-pocket on child care, it wouldn't make any adjustment for parents who need quality child care but can't afford it; the same is likely to be the case for health care (although Census suggests it's open to looking at an adjustment for people who are uninsured and simply can't afford to get the care they need, an adjustment we should be urging them to make).

You note that the current measure doesn't address the fact that "it costs a lot more to live in cities like D.C., L.A., and Boston." However, I think some caution is in order before progressives conclude that adjusting the national poverty measure based on geographic differences in certain living costs is essential. One major problem is that the approaches that Census has taken to geographic adjustment to date could result in poverty thresholds for some of the poorest states, including Louisiana, Mississippi, West Virginia, and Arkansas, that are actually lower than the current poverty thresholds.

Yes, housing may cost less, say, in Tate County, Mississippi--an example the Center for American Progress has given for housing cost adjustment. But considerable other evidence suggests that low-income Mississippians are considerably worse off in economic and social terms than low-income Washingtonians. Despite low rents, Mississippi has the nation's highest level of food insecurity and hunger (17.4%), while the relatively high-rent Washington has a considerably lower rate of food insecurity (11.1%). Similarly, the Delta region of Mississippi that Tate County is located in scores lower on the <a href = "see http://measureofamerica.org/wp-content/uploads/... Human Development Index ("a numerical measure of well-being and opportunity made up of health, education, and income indicators") than any other region of Mississippi, a state which itself scores dead last among the 50 states on the index. Finally, the Congressional District that Tate County is located in, Mississippi's 1st, ranks 416th out of 436 districts on the American HDI; by comparison, the Congressional District that Seattle is located in, Washington's 7th, ranks 28th out of 436 districts. You might want to ask yourself, if you were given the same amount of low income and the choice of growing up in either Seattle or Tate County, Mississippi, which one would you choose: 28th or 416th?

Related to this is an important question about whether geographic adjustment should be part of any measure that is used for the purpose of a national poverty reduction target. Do we want to bring people in Tate County, Mississippi up to a national standard, or should we set the bar lower for because rents are lower there? I'm strongly in favor of a national standard for Tate County, Mississippi, not a dismal Mississippi one. Similarly, poverty estimates produced by CLASP in November 2009 using Census' own on-line calculator for producing alternative poverty measures found that West Virginia's poverty measure would be lower than Massachusetts' (12.3% vs. 14.2%). I have a hard time believing that the West Virginia social and economic model does a better job of fighting poverty than the Massachusetts one, and other direct measures of deprivation and economic don't support that conclusion. These numbers are likely to change somewhat as Census refines its measure, but they need to change quite a bit to be consistent with what most data tells us about geographic differences in deprivation, and what state-level social and economic policies work best in reducing poverty.

by: Shawn_Fremstad

03-08-2010 @ 2:32pm

It's too soon to say whether the new measure will result in "eight million more Americans" counted as experiencing income poverty. Previous estimates had found increases under the new approach, however, Census has been careful to explain that the proposed measure is "different along some dimensions from any estimates that have been produced to date," so these estimates will change. I think the most reasonable guesstimate right now is that the measure produces a somewhat higher national poverty rate, but we won't know for sure until Census provides updated estimates.

Also, while it's true that the current measure, which I agree is deeply flawed, "doesn't account for rising housing, health-care, and child-care costs," it's arguable whether the proposed measure does a good job of accounting for these costs, especially health-care and child-care costs. While the new approach would subtract amounts parents actually spend out-of-pocket on child care, it wouldn't make any adjustment for parents who need quality child care but can't afford it; the same is likely to be the case for health care (although Census suggests it's open to looking at an adjustment for people who are uninsured and simply can't afford to get the care they need, an adjustment we should be urging them to make).

You note that the current measure doesn't address the fact that "it costs a lot more to live in cities like D.C., L.A., and Boston." However, I think some caution is in order before progressives conclude that adjusting the national poverty measure based on geographic differences in certain living costs is essential. One major problem is that the approaches that Census has taken to geographic adjustment to date could result in poverty thresholds for some of the poorest states, including Louisiana, Mississippi, West Virginia, and Arkansas, that are actually lower than the current poverty thresholds.

Yes, housing may cost less, say, in Tate County, Mississippi--an example the Center for American Progress has given for housing cost adjustment. But considerable other evidence suggests that low-income Mississippians are considerably worse off in economic and social terms than low-income Washingtonians. Despite low rents, Mississippi has the nation's highest level of food insecurity and hunger (17.4%), while the relatively high-rent Washington has a considerably lower rate of food insecurity (11.1%). Similarly, the Delta region of Mississippi that Tate County is located in scores lower on the <a href = "see http://measureofamerica.org/wp-content/uploads/... Human Development Index ("a numerical measure of well-being and opportunity made up of health, education, and income indicators") than any other region of Mississippi, a state which itself scores dead last among the 50 states on the index. Finally, the Congressional District that Tate County is located in, Mississippi's 1st, ranks 416th out of 436 districts on the American HDI; by comparison, the Congressional District that Seattle is located in, Washington's 7th, ranks 28th out of 436 districts. You might want to ask yourself, if you were given the same amount of low income and the choice of growing up in either Seattle or Tate County, Mississippi, which one would you choose: 28th or 416th?

Related to this is an important question about whether geographic adjustment should be part of any measure that is used for the purpose of a national poverty reduction target. Do we want to bring people in Tate County, Mississippi up to a national standard, or should we set the bar lower for because rents are lower there? I'm strongly in favor of a national standard for Tate County, Mississippi, not a dismal Mississippi one. Similarly, poverty estimates produced by CLASP in November 2009 using Census' own on-line calculator for producing alternative poverty measures found that West Virginia's poverty measure would be lower than Massachusetts' (12.3% vs. 14.2%). I have a hard time believing that the West Virginia social and economic model does a better job of fighting poverty than the Massachusetts one, and other direct measures of deprivation and economic don't support that conclusion. These numbers are likely to change somewhat as Census refines its measure, but they need to change quite a bit to be consistent with what most data tells us about geographic differences in deprivation, and what state-level social and economic policies work best in reducing poverty.

by: Shawn_Fremstad

03-08-2010 @ 2:32pm

It's too soon to say whether the new measure will result in "eight million more Americans" counted as experiencing income poverty. Previous estimates had found increases under the new approach, however, Census has been careful to explain that the proposed measure is "different along some dimensions from any estimates that have been produced to date," so these estimates will change. I think the most reasonable guesstimate right now is that the measure produces a somewhat higher national poverty rate, but we won't know for sure until Census provides updated estimates.

Also, while it's true that the current measure, which I agree is deeply flawed, "doesn't account for rising housing, health-care, and child-care costs," it's arguable whether the proposed measure does a good job of accounting for these costs, especially health-care and child-care costs. While the new approach would subtract amounts parents actually spend out-of-pocket on child care, it wouldn't make any adjustment for parents who need quality child care but can't afford it; the same is likely to be the case for health care (although Census suggests it's open to looking at an adjustment for people who are uninsured and simply can't afford to get the care they need, an adjustment we should be urging them to make).

You note that the current measure doesn't address the fact that "it costs a lot more to live in cities like D.C., L.A., and Boston." However, I think some caution is in order before progressives conclude that adjusting the national poverty measure based on geographic differences in certain living costs is essential. One major problem is that the approaches that Census has taken to geographic adjustment to date could result in poverty thresholds for some of the poorest states, including Louisiana, Mississippi, West Virginia, and Arkansas, that are actually lower than the current poverty thresholds.

Yes, housing may cost less, say, in Tate County, Mississippi--an example the Center for American Progress has given for housing cost adjustment. But considerable other evidence suggests that low-income Mississippians are considerably worse off in economic and social terms than low-income Washingtonians. Despite low rents, Mississippi has the nation's highest level of food insecurity and hunger (17.4%), while the relatively high-rent Washington has a considerably lower rate of food insecurity (11.1%). Similarly, the Delta region of Mississippi that Tate County is located in scores lower on the <a href = "see http://measureofamerica.org/wp-content/uploads/... Human Development Index ("a numerical measure of well-being and opportunity made up of health, education, and income indicators") than any other region of Mississippi, a state which itself scores dead last among the 50 states on the index. Finally, the Congressional District that Tate County is located in, Mississippi's 1st, ranks 416th out of 436 districts on the American HDI; by comparison, the Congressional District that Seattle is located in, Washington's 7th, ranks 28th out of 436 districts. You might want to ask yourself, if you were given the same amount of low income and the choice of growing up in either Seattle or Tate County, Mississippi, which one would you choose: 28th or 416th?

Related to this is an important question about whether geographic adjustment should be part of any measure that is used for the purpose of a national poverty reduction target. Do we want to bring people in Tate County, Mississippi up to a national standard, or should we set the bar lower for because rents are lower there? I'm strongly in favor of a national standard for Tate County, Mississippi, not a dismal Mississippi one. Similarly, poverty estimates produced by CLASP in November 2009 using Census' own on-line calculator for producing alternative poverty measures found that West Virginia's poverty measure would be lower than Massachusetts' (12.3% vs. 14.2%). I have a hard time believing that the West Virginia social and economic model does a better job of fighting poverty than the Massachusetts one, and other direct measures of deprivation and economic don't support that conclusion. These numbers are likely to change somewhat as Census refines its measure, but they need to change quite a bit to be consistent with what most data tells us about geographic differences in deprivation, and what state-level social and economic policies work best in reducing poverty.

by: Lisa Belise

09-19-2010 @ 10:53pm

Taken from the US department of Health and Human Services website on 9/19/2010-

Q.Are the poverty thresholds calculated every year by multiplying the cost of an Agriculture Department food plan by three?

A. No. The "three-times-the-cost-of-the-food-plan" calculation was done only once, for the 1963 base year poverty thresholds, using the Agriculture Department's economy food plan. Poverty thresholds for years since 1963 have been updated for price changes only using the Consumer Price Index.

by: Lisa Belise

09-19-2010 @ 10:53pm

Taken from the US department of Health and Human Services website on 9/19/2010-

Q.Are the poverty thresholds calculated every year by multiplying the cost of an Agriculture Department food plan by three?

A. No. The "three-times-the-cost-of-the-food-plan" calculation was done only once, for the 1963 base year poverty thresholds, using the Agriculture Department's economy food plan. Poverty thresholds for years since 1963 have been updated for price changes only using the Consumer Price Index.

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