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By Fearing Churches that Speak out for Social Justice, Glenn Beck Fears the Gospel

In a recent show, Glenn Beck told his listeners to watch out for churches that use the term "social justice," or "economic justice." He thinks that those terms are code words that will lead to the dark tunnel of Communism. While others have taken him to task for denying the very gospel, I take the time to look at the word justice. I have a feeling he does not understand Justice and he fears the word "social." I wonder if he would run away from a Ice Cream Social as a closeted gathering of Marxists?

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In reality, there is no social justice, only justice. Justice is the very foundation of God's creation:

Righteousness and justice are the foundation of your throne; love and faithfulness go before you.
-Psalm 89.14

Justice is bonded with love. I would say that a church that does not speak about Justice is one where the gospel of Jesus is foreign. All Justice manifests itself in the greater society. If the poor are treated badly in the society, then Justice is the kingdom of God is hidden. Yet the kingdom of God always bursts forward. Justice goes beyond the individual, beyond our culture to the very heart of God. When, in Gen. 1, God pronounces creation good, God performs an act of Justice. Justice is the act of validating existence. To practice justice is to " encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow." Isaiah 1.17

By drawing the word into a partisan debate, Glenn Beck reveals that he has no understanding of the word or the kingdom of God. Justice is beyond both Democrats and Republicans.

When justice is done, it brings joy to the righteous but terror to evildoers. -Proverbs 21:15

By fearing churches that speak out for social justice, Beck fears the gospel.

portrait-ernesto-tinajero1Ernesto Tinajero is a freelance writer in Spokane, Washington, who earned his master's degree in theology from Fuller Seminary. Visit his blog at beingandfaith.blogspot.com.

+ Click here to tell Glenn Beck: I'm a social justice Christian.

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by: Agjosh

03-12-2010 @ 10:05pm

Patricia - Your most recent post has brought some clarity to why you and I are such polar opposites in so many areas. Our view of the truth and authority of scripture is vastly different, so any discussion about interpretation is certainly fruitless. I don't mean this to be mean or contemptuous, but how can you pretend to have a biblically sound discussion of any kind when your core understanding of salvation is anti-biblical? How does one have a rational conversation with those from your viewpoint when you hold to the ability to be able to change all rules of discussion by picking and choosing which parts of scripture you will believe? I so sincerely am not trying to by ugly here, but please explain to me how one arrives at such a place to blatantly deny clear biblical teaching and still profess to be a follower of Christ. Either Jesus meant what He said when He said salvation was not possible outside of Him or else He was a liar....and if He was a liar, than nothing He said about eternal life is worthy of following. Even your word choice of "different paths" directly violates core, red-letter words of Jesus who said He was THE way and later described His path as being narrow and one few would find.
No doubt, God is capable about bringing good through the efforts of nonbelievers and no doubt, the church is too often put to shame by the care and generosity of those outside its walls (in comparison to those inside). But in the end, it's not about works or doing good - it is about relationship - true relationship with God - knowing Him and glorifying Him forever. And those who walk in true relationship with God are transformed to walk (and want to walk) in relationship with those they come in contact with of all races, socioeconomics, abilities, etc...

by: bndgk05

03-15-2010 @ 9:45pm

The people of isreal every seventh year had what was the year of jubilee in which all debt was forgiven and all the wealth was evenly distrubited amongst everyone. Is that the same as socialism?

by: Agjosh

03-10-2010 @ 11:08pm

What you said was "He SHOULD fear the gospel"...as in, he should fear the good news that Christ died for all sinners. Seems pretty judgmental to me. I could maybe even understand fearing God's justice (which is the only justice that really matters ironically), but fearing the gospel? How does that one work?

As to your opinion, you are certainly entitled to it. However, I am tired of liberal "theology" that seeks to destroy the church and I will call you and everyone else out who corrupts, abuses, and violates Biblical orthodoxy. Furthermore, when your opinion is judgmental, I will hold out that fact the same as I would with a member of the KKK or any other radical group that twist scripture to fit their own personal opinions, agendas, etc...

I do not distort anything you say - I call you into accountability about it. I challenge you to back up your opinions with scripture. I don't give a flip about your opinion, but I'll give my life for the truths of scripture. So when you try to place your opinion over scripture or use it to twist orthodoxy, I will call you out. I will not stop. I will not recant.

by: Agjosh

03-10-2010 @ 10:59pm

Again I am amazed by the intolerant and judgmental attitude of the liberals here...it far surpasses anything I have ever come across on any conservative site. I'll claim him - I'll claim anyone that desires to follow Christ. I thought that was a large part of the mission. I guess I missed the part in the Bible where we got to choose who we prayed for and sought for the Kingdom....but then, there are a lot of things spewed here that I have never seen in scripture.

by: Agjosh

03-10-2010 @ 10:55pm

The percentage of my compensation that is tax exempt is not that great, and the amount I give away more than matches that tax break....and I've always wondered how long the church will be allowed to remain tax exempt if the government takes over all social programs. Which should actually concern those who care about the church at all as most churches could not operate without the tax exemption - and I don't mean the mega churches or over-programmed places - I mean the home churches and little congregations.

by: kansasmennonite

03-10-2010 @ 10:25pm

I don't want to claim him-do you :)

by: LaurelK

03-10-2010 @ 10:15pm

We can only pray that one day Glen Beck will be converted to Christianity.

by: Patricia

03-11-2010 @ 12:23am

You are again assuming your interpretation is correct - it is not.

You are assuming: "as in, he should fear the good news that Christ died for all sinners." That is not correct.

Why don't you just respectfully ask me what I mean, instead of assuming? I would happily explain and engage in honest dialogue.

You're making a lot of judgmental assumptions yourself regarding my theology and motives.

I could make the same comment to you that you made to me: "Good to see that you have retained you position as God this week. Keep up the eternal judgement of those who have different social and political views than you!!"

Your own comments reflect exactly the attitude you were complaining about.

by: liberalinlove

03-11-2010 @ 12:07am

Do you believe the only reason people give now to support their churches are for tax purposes. I am a P.K. and we grew up dirt poor. All things being equal, I've wondered if there can be a more equitable tax as those who have lots of money seem to know how to get all the tax breaks. My husband paid more taxes than President Nixon, yet he didn't make enough to live on the year he owed them.

by: Jesusistheway

03-10-2010 @ 11:38pm

A great showing of agape love

by: Patricia

03-12-2010 @ 6:43pm

Hi NC77 -

It is hard to access the blog today...

I had a paragraph in my original response dealing with the reality that our efforts will always be flawed, but took it out because I was getting too long - guess I should have left it in :). I'm not maintaining that efforts will be perfect, just that they will be active, and most of the time (allowing for our sinful nature) will be visible fruits. So I think we mostly agree.

I am not so sure that works without salvation are doomed to fail, though - I can't say that Mahatma Ghandi's efforts were/are a failure, and there are probably other good works of nonbelievers that have achieved success. I guess I prefer to believe that God is capable of bringing about good through the efforts of humans whether they believe in God or not :).

Also, those who are trying to do good with a secular humanist foundation might be approachable through faith more readily in some ways than those who are not at least concerned with justice. I think Christians could provide the connection that might bridge the faith gap for those who are already seeking to do good?

I have to confess that I don't hold the belief that only Christians will be saved, either. Christianity is my path, but it's possible that God has called others to different paths - it's not up to me to decide and I won't know until after I'm not here any more. I'll let God handle that one. I imagine we don't quite see eye to eye on this one :).

by: VasuMurti

03-12-2010 @ 3:14am

Jesus' ministry was one of social justice!

In an e-mail dated December 12, 2005, my dear friend Matias Carnevale Cano in Argentina, wrote:

"I am re-reading Keith Akers' manuscript, Broken Thread: The Fate of the Jewish Followers of Jesus in Early Christianity, because I keep on finding Christians who deny the relevance of a correspondence between life and faith. Many think that faith is just believing in Christ, thus they can do whatever they please...Thank God I do not follow that idea. These persons would not accept the importance of vegetarianism or even leading a simple life, such a pity. If what they have to give is 'love', it takes just a look to see what the world is becoming because of this Christian 'love.' "

Repeating Psalm 37:11, Jesus said, "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth." (Matthew 5:5) Here Jesus refers to Isaiah's vision (11:6-9) of the future Kingdom of Peace, where the earth is restored to a vegetarian paradise. (Genesis 1:29-31) Jesus taught his followers to pray for the coming of God's kingdom and to do God's will "on earth as it is in heaven." (Matthew 6:9-10)

The kingdom of God belongs to the gentle and kind. "Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God." (Matthew 5:7-9) "Be merciful, just as your Father is also merciful." (Luke 6:36)

Jesus called the peacemakers or pacifists sons of God, because they emulate God's universal and unconditional love. "He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Therefore, be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." (Matthew 5:45-48; Luke 6:32-35)

Although the Ten Commandments teach "thou shalt not kill," Jesus extended this morality to the point where one must never even get angry without cause. (Matthew 5:21-22) And although the Ten Commandments teach "thou shalt not commit adultery," Jesus taught that "whoever looks upon a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Matthew 5:27-28)

The Bible limits compensation to "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth," but Jesus taught his followers not to defend themselves against attack or aggression. "All who take up the sword must perish by the sword," Jesus warned. (Matthew 26:52) The Bible teaches men to love their neighbors and hate their enemies, but Jesus taught them to love their enemies and bless and pray for their persecutors. (Matthew 5:38-44; Luke 6:27-29)

Jesus forbade divorce, except for unfaithfulness. When asked why Moses permitted divorce, Jesus replied that it was a concession to the hardness of the heart. He insisted upon the moral standards given by God at the beginning. (Matthew 5:31-32, 19:3-9; Mark 10:2-12; Luke 16:18)

Jesus told his followers there is no need to pray to God for material blessings or even necessities. (Matthew 6:8,31-33; Luke 12:29-30) God's compassion extends to all creation and He will easily provide for all of man's needs:

"Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them...Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow, they neither toil nor spin. And yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Now if God so clothes the grass of the field...will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?" (Matthew 6:26-30; Luke 12:24-28)

Jesus and his disciples lived lives of voluntary poverty and preached God's word among "the poor." When asked why he ate with sinners, he replied, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. But go and learn what this means, 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice.' For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance." (Matthew 9:10-13; Mark 2:15-17; Luke 5:29-32)

In the 1986 (updated) edition of A Vegetarian Sourcebook, Keith Akers notes that there was a link in Judaism between meat-eating and animal sacrifices, that the prophetic tradition to which Jesus belonged attacked animal sacrifices, and that Jesus attacked the practice of animal sacrifice by driving the money-changers and their animals out of the Temple. He concludes, "The evidence indicates that for those who first heard the message of Jesus... the rejection of animal sacrifices had directly vegetarian implications."

Jesus taught humility and servitude. "You know the rulers of the gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. Yet it shall not be so among you, but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave." (Matthew 20:25-27; Mark 10:42-44; Luke 22:25-27) When his disciples argued amongst themselves who would be the greatest, Jesus told them, "If anyone desires to be first, he shall be last of all and servant of all." (Matthew 23:11; Mark 9:33-35) On another occasion he explained, "For he who is least among you all will be great." (Luke 9:48) According to Jesus, "Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." (Matthew 23:12; Luke 14:11)

Jesus told his disciples they were to think of themselves as unprofitable servants who simply do their duty. (Luke 17:7-10) Jesus even washed the feet of his disciples after the Last Supper, to set an example to his disciples about humility and equality before God. (John 13:1-16)

Jesus taught that before God, no one can be called good. (Matthew 19:17; Mark 10:18; Luke 18:19) He saw the righteous and the wicked with equal vision. When Jesus was informed about Galileans who suffered at the hands of Pontius Pilate, the Roman governor, he responded: "Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? I tell you no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.

"Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them," Jesus continued. "Do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish." (Luke 13:1-5)

The Pharisees apparently claimed religious leadership without such humility before God. "If you were (spiritually) blind," Jesus told them on one occasion, "you would have no sin; but now you say, 'We see.' Therefore, your sin remains." (John 9:41)

According to Luke, the Pharisees trusted in their own righteousness and therefore looked down upon others. Jesus told a parable of two men-a Pharisee and a tax collector-praying at Temple. The Pharisee prayed, "God, I thank You that I am not like the other men-extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all I possess."

Meanwhile, the tax collector stood off in the distance. He would not even raise his eyes towards heaven, but merely prayed, "God, be merciful to me a sinner!" Jesus said it was the tax collector who went home justified, not the Pharisee, for "everyone who exalts himself shall be humbled and he who humbles himself will be exalted." (Luke 18:9-14)

Jesus instructed his followers to perform their charity, prayer and fasting in private. Religious devotion must never become a means to adulation, fame and social recognition. (Matthew 6:1-6,16-18) Jesus' disciples did not fast in the same manner as the disciples of John the Baptist or the Pharisees (Matthew 9:14-17; Mark 2:18-22; Luke 5:33-39), but they did fast. (Matthew 6:16-18) Jesus even taught that certain kinds of demons could only be exorcised through prayer and fasting. (Matthew 17:14-21; Mark 9:17-29) Jesus taught constant prayer. (Luke 21:36) He often withdrew into the wilderness to pray. (Luke 5:16) At least once, Jesus went to the mountains and spent the night in prayer. (Matthew 14:23; Mark 6:46; Luke 6:12)

Jesus explained that celibacy is not something everyone can practice; it is meant only for those whom God has ordained it. He used the euphemism "eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven," recalling his euphemism about denying or dismembering bodily urges rather than having the entire body destroyed by sin. (Matthew 5:29-30, 18:8-9, 19:10-12)

The apparent celibacy of Jesus is unusual by ancient Hebrew standards. The Bible does call for temporary abstinences, under certain circumstances. According to the Talmud, Moses voluntarily chose to give up sexual relations with his wife after he received his call from God. He reasoned that if the Israelites, to whom the Lord spoke only once and briefly, were ordered to abstain from sexual relations temporarily (Exodus 19:10,15), then he-being in continual dialogue with God-should remain celibate.

Philo of Alexandria tells us that to sanctify himself, Moses cleansed himself of "all the mortal calls of nature, food and drink and intercourse with women. This last he had disdained for many a day, almost from the time when, possessed by the Spirit, he entered on his work as a prophet, since he held it fitting to hold himself always in readiness to receive the oracular messages." Given this information, Jesus' apparent voluntary embrace of celibacy, from the time of his baptism and reception of the Spirit of God, becomes meaningful to Jews and Christians alike.

John the Baptist told the people to share half of their food and clothing with the needy. (Luke 3:11) Jesus was pleased when Zacchaeus, a wealthy tax collector, promised to give half his goods to the poor. "Today salvation has come to this house, because he is also a son of Abraham. For the Son of Man has come to seek and save that which was lost." (Luke 19:2-10)

However, Jesus went even further, and called for renunciation of worldly goods. He did not regard the accumulation of material possessions as a meaningful goal in life. "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy...But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven...for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." (Matthew 6:19-20; Luke 12:33-34)

Jesus told the multitudes that followed him, "...whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:25,33) "No one can serve two masters," Jesus explained. "...he will be loyal to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and Mammon." (Matthew 6:24; Luke 16:13)

Jesus had no interest in worldly disputes over money and property. (Luke 12:13-14) "Take heed and beware of covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of the things he possesses." Jesus condemned those who lay up treasures for themselves, but are not rich towards God. (Luke 12:15-21)

In his parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31), Jesus expressed concern for materialistic persons. When a rich, young ruler came to Jesus and said he had kept God's commandments since youth, Jesus prized him dearly and replied, "You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come follow me." The man went away, saddened. Jesus observed that it is hard for those attached to earthly riches to enter the kingdom of God. (Matthew 19:16-24; Mark 10:17-23; Luke 18:18-25)

Jesus even demanded the renunciation of family ties. (Luke 14:26) It appears Jesus had little contact even with his own family; he regarded only those who do God's will as his brethren. (Matthew 12:46-50; Mark 3:31-35; Luke 8:19-21) When a woman said to Jesus, "Blessed is the womb that bore you and the breasts which nursed you," Jesus replied, "More blessed still are those who hear and keep the word of God." (Luke 11:27-28)

Perhaps the most famous narrative depicting Jesus as a Jewish religious reformer is John 8:1-11. Jesus was teaching people at Temple early in the morning. The scribes and Pharisees brought to him a woman caught in the act of adultery. "Now Moses, in the Law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do you say?"

"Let he among you who is without sin," Jesus responded, "cast the first stone." The woman's accusers all found themselves convicted by their own conscience. They released her and went away. No one was left to condemn her. "Neither do I condemn you;" Jesus told her, "go and sin no more."

Aside from the Pharisees, the gospels and Book of Acts mention the Sadducees as the only other major school of Judaic thought. The Sadducees tended to be rich, nationalist and secularist.

The Jewish historian Josephus, who lived during the time of Jesus, wrote that the "Pharisees have delivered to the people a great many observances...which are not written into the laws of Moses and" which "the Sadducees reject," but they "are able to persuade none but the rich," whereas "the Pharisees have the multitude on their side."

Thus Jesus never rejected Mosaic Law (Matthew 5:17-19; Mark 10:17-22; Luke 16:17); only the excesses of the Pharisees with regards to its observance.

(It was Paul, not Jesus, who taught that the Law was abolished.)

by: kansasmennonite

03-11-2010 @ 12:38am

It's tongue and cheek. Do you really think Beck desires to follow Christ? You're doing a lot of spewing yourself. So you're a pastor (conservative one) that came on this site to set progressors staight? This is a progressor site so expect to have pushback.

Maybe if you would benefit from some gov't help it wouldn't hurt you at all. Would give you a chance to do some help for others you wouldn't possible to able to but you generalize way to much to know what programs you're thinking of, etc.

by: Patricia

03-12-2010 @ 2:19am

NC77 -

For me, it's the tension of faith and works. There is no work that a human can do that will make him or her worthy of salvation. But, salvation (faith) without works is empty and false.

So, I would say that if you (generic) think you are saved (through faith in Christ), but you do not give anything to or care about the poor, then you do not really have faith and are not really saved.

I think if a person accepts the salvation Jesus offers, that person also accepts the instructions and teachings He left with His church. They go together.

I say "required" because Jesus clearly instructed his followers to care for the poor and the sick. He didn't say, "if you want to", He didn't say, "if you feel like it", He didn't say, "if it's convenient", He didn't say, "as long as it doesn't impact the comfort of your lifestyle", and He didn't say, "when the poor really deserve it" - He said to care for the poor and the sick - no qualifiers.

He said His followers will be known and identifiable by their fruits, so I believe, no fruits, no real follower.

Does that make sense?

by: liberalinlove

03-11-2010 @ 5:00pm

Here's my story. My parents never gave their tithe to care for widows, orphans, or strangers in our midst. As A Preacher's Kid, I never heard the sermon. Our tithe was for the purpose of managing church finances period or for spreading the gospel in other countries. In the 30 plus years I attended various churches, I never heard a sermon on giving for the purpose of taking care of widows and orphans and the strangers amongst us.

It truly wasn't until I began to do a personal comparative study on the Old and New Testament God, that I realized how God's people are often led into captivity or fail to receive his blessings because of their failure to care for widows, orphans and strangers in their midst. That led me to a more in depth study as to the nature of God. I believe we do reap what we sow. Avoiding theological issues here, I'm pretty well convinced that the whole format of a church that survives only to usher sheep in and out Sundays, Wed. and occasionally Missionary special event services has perhaps failed to hit the mark all together.

Serving a church or pastoring a church is about equipping those members to serve each other and their community. We were too tired going through the motions of getting ready for all those other programs to actually serve our neighbors.

As a small child I vividly remember one neighbor, crippled with arthritis and without support of family, killing himself. We were always rushing off to church.

I also frequently heard over the years, "we don't help people who don't attend our own congregation". Now that, I know isn't in the bible just based on the story of the Good Samaritan.

As a pastor, I would strongly encourage you to open handedly begin loving your community and see how God transforms your church and your congregation. Those are the stories we need to hear multiplied. Then people may begin flocking to our churches instead of placing their hope in government. You may also find your own circumstances become more bountiful. Until then, I'm unafraid of allowing my government to also be a hand of God, by helping those less fortunate than I have an opportunity to become all God sees them being.

by: WaveTossed

03-11-2010 @ 4:51pm

Agjosh wrote: "As to your opinion, you are certainly entitled to it. However, I am tired of liberal "theology" that seeks to destroy the church and I will call you and everyone else out who corrupts, abuses, and violates Biblical orthodoxy. Furthermore, when your opinion is judgmental,"

And your opinion (about people who supposedly corrupt, abuse, and violate YOUR VIEW and YOUR OPINION about Biblical orthodoxy) is NOT being judgmental??

As for Scripture reference, Matthew 7:1 will suffice.

by: WaveTossed

03-11-2010 @ 4:47pm

From Glenn Beck: ""Communists are on the left, and the Nazis are on the right. That's what people say. But they both subscribe to one philosophy, and they flew one banner. . . . But on each banner, read the words, here in America: 'social justice.' They talked about economic justice, rights of the workers, redistribution of wealth, and surprisingly, democracy."

Now I am truly confused. Does Glenn Beck say that there something wrong with churches that believe in democracy? Would he rather worship in churches that believe in autocracy or perhaps theocracy?

by: PASTOR JEFF

03-11-2010 @ 1:34am

The entire Lord's Prayer is a political statement

by: PASTOR JEFF

03-11-2010 @ 1:33am

nope, just flagged. Bye

by: squeaky

03-11-2010 @ 1:10am

First of all, kansasmennonite was kidding, as exemplified by the emoticon. It may not have been the most tasteful kid, but kid it was. Not meant as snark, else he would have used a snark emoticon (not sure what those look like, though....maybe >:}. IDK). Personally, I'd rejoice if Beck chose Christ so that he would finally have the moral fortitude to challenge himself on why he demonizes people. I strongly suspect he doesnt' believe half the things he says and is in it for the paycheck. He has found his schtick. If only everyone could recognize that is what it is.

Second of all, I've never seen you post here before, so I'm guessing you are new, or you have been watching in the wings for some time now. But statements like this I find rather perplexing:

"Again I am amazed by the intolerant and judgmental attitude of the liberals here"

Who, among the Liberal crowd on this site does this on a regular basis? Please be specific. Oddly, I seem to see more of it coming from the "other side". Could be I'm biased. Could be you are too.

I would also suggest that the reason you haven't seen the vitriol of which you seem to see here on conservative sites is because that unlike here, liberals don't tend to troll conservative Christian sites just to make trouble, as seems to happen here from the more conservative-minded. Which is why so few of the regular liberal posters are even here any longer.

In any case. I do welcome you to the site, and I sincerely hope you are here to engage in productive dialogue and to learn from others who have different perspectives than you, as well as share your perspective.

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by: jonabark

03-11-2010 @ 2:34am

He never says that the gospel is a political program. He never says social justice is equivalent to the gospel. He seems to me to be saying that God is a god who calls for justice, and that to deny that call is to deny the nature of God's message to the world and to each individual and as shown in Mathew 25 to the nations.

In short there is no biblical theology which allows indifference to social justice.

What is obvious is that Glenn Beck is really terrified not by Communism. He is terrified of Americans using the constitutional empowerment of citizens to gain such terrifying arrangements as universal health care, good education for all and a shift toward a non militarized, peaceable and more equitable use of our taxes to build a sustainable world where bullies, liars, frauds, ponzi schemers, polluters, and corrupt politicians don't run everything.

by: Patricia

03-11-2010 @ 2:15am

That must have been in a previous incarnation...under a previous alias :).

by: Agjosh

03-11-2010 @ 2:13am

This is the best response I have received or seen as it avoids the attacking style of so many others. There is no doubt we all bring our bias to the table, and though I am new to the site (only posted on a couple of articles), I have noticed several posts that are intolerant and judgmental.
The problem with calling this a progressor site as kansas does or posting tongue in cheek comments is that this a public forum. The very word "progressor" implies superiority of some sort and joking about things of eternal value can quickly be misconstrued to make all Christians look bad.
I am not here to troll anything - though I do think that goes both ways. I am gravely concerned that both polarities are doing extreme damage to the kingdom by their attacks on each other. When the church starts demonizing one another over politics, we are in incredible danger of becoming impotent on every front.
The truth is, I know great men and women that are liberal and conservative. In both groups I see those that love God passionately, but I see others who question the true heart of others based on non-biblical issues. We would all do well to remember Wesley's call "in the essentials, unity - in the nonessentials, liberty - and in all things love".
For the record, I call out conservatives who try to twist political issues into spiritual stances with equal vigor.

by: Agjosh

03-11-2010 @ 1:59am

I have not one time passed judgement on you or come anywhere close to doing so. In the past, I have asked you to substantiate your claims with scripture on numerous occasions. Your responses have not once done this. Instead, you have claimed that because scripture does not specifically speak against your view, that even though it might imply another direction, then your opinion is valid. If I take any of your words out of context, by all means defend you viewpoint. Simply typing "that is not correct" doesn't seem like much of an explanation to me. I simply typed your words and inserted the definition of the gospel where you used that word.

by: Agjosh

03-11-2010 @ 1:55am

I certainly do not think the only reason people give to the church is because of the tax break - and I pray that isn't the case. When I speak of churches suffering should the tax laws change, I was speaking more from the opposite end of the spectrum. To lose tax exemption would substantially drive up the costs associated with running and equipping a church. Also, if people are lead to believe that government is taking care of all the social ills in society via mandatory taxation, then voluntary giving to current programs will drop significantly. This creates a whole new wave of unemployment and costs that are not even remotely being considered into today's political calculations.

by: Black

08-11-2011 @ 1:48am

At...

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by: PASTOR JEFF

03-11-2010 @ 1:41am

Pick me! Pick me!

by: Black

08-11-2011 @ 1:48am

At...

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by: PASTOR JEFF

03-11-2010 @ 1:39am

Amen, brother. I used to have a charitable view of evangelicals until I started posting here

by: PASTOR JEFF

03-11-2010 @ 1:36am

ooo, ooo, I do! I do!

by: NMRod

03-11-2010 @ 3:43am

Why is everything determined through the distorting lenses of the ideologies of "left" and "right"?

These are artificial categories useful for dividing people up in order to foment the conflict people love to engage in, ever since The Great Divorce.

They are hardly indicative of genuine morality - pro-life politicians who rail against abortion while calling for mass murder of foreigners they call enemies(whom Jesus calls us to love) and who never get around to doing anything about abortion for real either - and anti-war politicians who once in office actually increase war budgets more than any conservative and expand wars.

"Liberal" and "conservative" become epithets to hurl at one another to prove the other a greater moral failure than the ones doing the hurling. But in actuality, neither are either more moral at all and are just blinded by their own particular ideology beam in their own eye that they mistake for the supposedly greater sin of the other.

Most of them don't believe in anything they say anyhow; they are creatures of the influence peddling politics they deal in and are owned by their big donors - the morality tales are just what Republican White House advisors contemptuously termed "bullshit for the bubbas."

Liberalism's failures are well-documented; the latest incarnation of the right's attempts to restore morality through dominance, the right's own preferred method, have led to the spectacularly hypocritical spectacles that unbelievers have been so entertained by. It almost seemed for a while that if a conservative figure spoke out against some sinful behavior and particularly called for severe legal sanctions prohibiting and punishing, he would subsequently be revealed to himself be a practitioner of just what he condemned.

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06-27-2011 @ 8:32pm

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by: AbuelitaElPaso

03-12-2010 @ 4:36am

When he saw the crowds, he went up the mountain, and after he had sat down, his disciples came to him. He began to teach them, saying: "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are they who mourn, for they will be comforted. Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the land. BLESSED ARE THEY WHO HUNGER AND THIRST FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS, FOR THEY WILL BE SATISFIED. BLESSED ARE THE MERCIFUL, FOR THEY WILL BE SHOWN MERCY. Blessed are the clean of heart, for they will see God. BLESSED ARE THE PEACEMAKERS, FOR THEY WILL BE CALLED CHILDREN OF GOD. BLESSED ARE THEY WHO ARE PERSECUTED FOR THE SAKE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, FOR THEIRS IS THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. BLESSED ARE YOU WHEN THEY INSULT YOU AND PERSECUTE YOU AND UTTER EVERY KIND OF EVIL AGAINST YOU (FALSELY) BECAUSE OF ME. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you. You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. You are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lamp stand, where it gives light to all in the house. Just so, YOUR LIGHT MUST SHINE BEFORE OTHERS, THAT THEY MAY SEE YOUR GOOD DEEDS AND GLORIFY YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER. Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place. THEREFORE, WHOEVER BREAKS ONE OF THE LEAST OF THESE COMMANDMENTS AND TEACHES OTHERS TO DO SO WILL BE CALLED LEAST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN." Matthew 5:1-19 (my caps)

by: NC77

03-11-2010 @ 6:18pm

Patricia,

That sounds like a reasonable answer and interpretation. I think there is more to it from a social justice perspective, and in what Jesus expects of us.

I have to run soon so I will pick this up later tonight or tomorrow morning. Plus it will give some time to think about it from your perspective.

My perspective is pretty much the same as yours with some additional revelation I received from the Holy Spirit many years ago working on a research project for a college social studies class (go figure :-) ) about the homeless in Baltimore Maryland.

Concerning your statement, "...He is so clear in other parts of the Gospels that caring for the poor is not something we have an option to do, but something we are required to do as believers and followers of Him."

For clarification, do you believe Jesus taught that a person who does not care for the poor cannot have eternal life as Jesus presented it to his disciples and others? In other words, if I am saved (through faith in Christ) and I do not give anything to the poor and I do not care about the poor, will I lose my salvation because giving to the poor is an essential step for salvation?

I am just trying to clarify what the "required to do" part of the statement means to you. Is it a step towards salvation or a fruit of salvation? Thanks for the discussion. Catch you later.

by: Darren Labrum

03-11-2010 @ 6:21am

Wow amazing article.. let's find two scriptures with the word "justice" in it and then claim that it's the same context as the one Beck was denouncing. Oh and then we can try and make a case that he fears the Gospel! I'm so smart!

Anyone who listens to Beck's political shows knows that the code words he is referring to are codes for Communist and other tyrannical forms of government. In other words he was warning against sitting in church like Mr. Wright's that preach hate and Marxist philosophy. Jesus never taught that we should support communist or other tyrannical governments. Never. The code word he is referring to when used in the context of Marxist philosophy are accurate.

Again, give me a break. Before you write an article maybe look into the context a little better.

Hey everyone check out this scripture! "When justice is done, it brings joy to the righteous but terror to evildoers. -Proverbs 21:15" Glenn fears the Gospel! Pleeease...

by: liberalinlove

03-11-2010 @ 5:27pm

And which churches would be preaching/teaching Marxism or Communism. I thought they were pretty much atheists.

by: Lord_Voldemort

03-10-2010 @ 1:26pm

Okay, now we have to part company. I was with you when you said that a commitment to "social justice" is not a reason to freak out and "run away" from a church. Clearly the Bible does call for Christians to show compassion to the poor and less fortunate, and much as one might oppose broad redistribution of wealth (which at a minimum is often thought of as a form of "social justice") such things are not incompatible with a belief in Jesus Christ as redeemer of mankind.

But the two are not equivalent. One can accept Christ as redeemer of fallen mankind and support a laregly market-based economy. One can believe in the death and resurrection of Christ and still support an activist state. One can be a pacifist or embrace just war theory. Or one can believe the ancient creeds of Christianity and have little interest in politics at all.

The Gospel is not a political program, and to assert that it is, from either the left or the right, is ultimately to deny that Christ is Lord, because his Lordship goes well beyond matters of state.

LV

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05-13-2011 @ 12:54pm

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by: PASTOR JEFF

03-13-2010 @ 5:09am

"how can you pretend to have a biblically sound discussion of any kind when your core understanding of salvation is anti-biblical?"

Maybe she sees salvation as rooted in something other than the Bible?

"How does one have a rational conversation with those from your viewpoint when you hold to the ability to be able to change all rules of discussion by picking and choosing which parts of scripture you will believe?"

Because rational discussion is rooted in reason and respect and not competition over who is right?

"explain to me how one arrives at such a place to blatantly deny clear biblical teaching and still profess to be a follower of Christ."

She hasn't denied anything Biblical.

"Either Jesus meant what He said when He said salvation was not possible outside of Him or else He was a liar"

What if that is not what He meant? Then He's not a liar, Patricia can still be saved and you are merely temporarily misguided.

There are many nonbelievers among professing Christians.

You cannot know Him without loving the least of these.

by: MommaN

03-11-2010 @ 12:22pm

I hope that no one is sitting in a church that is encouraging them to hate others that we are called to love. And forgive me, while I have watched Glenn Beck on occasion, I did miss this particular episode. Is it fair to assume that you watched it since you made this post?

The comments hear are a response to the blanket statement of fleeing any church that speaks about 'Social Justice.' Now, I know that you obviously understood the context quite well, but does it follow that everyone does?

The larger issue, the one that has spurned these and other blog posts, is the idea that Glenn Beck seems to be telling people not just how to conduct themselves politically, but spiritually. I admit, the idea that Glenn Beck or any pundit would do that (or any pundit, including those who fall to the left) is a little terrifying to me. Many churches are already fighting against the tendency of political polarization. I know of instances where people have been removed from leadership positions, where pastors have been fired, even where there have been church splits have occurred because of disputes that were purely about politics.

The idea that the kind of organizational zeal that went into the Tea Party could go to splitting up churches into Democrat and Republican is horrifying. If we can't come together at church, where can we come together?

(I think) That is what this response is about. It is to remind people that justice is central to the church, yes, and that Glenn Beck has no say over what church you should attend, yes, but also just about being a little scared that people will take him seriously.

by: NC77

03-11-2010 @ 12:01pm

Hey Patricia,

I am not sure of what scripture you are talking about with Judas Iscariot using the plight of the poor to advance his own agenda. Nevertheless, we do know he was always overly concerened about money and he carried the money bag for the group. Not sure what his agenda was except to hoard money and sell out Jesus by betraying him. But he (Judas) was created for that very purpose in life, and so was fullfilling God's will. Some vessels are created for honor, others for dishoner. I am not sure the scriptures clearly reveal if Judas's agenda was to take advantage of the plight of the poor, more than to just satisfy his own greed.

The context I am referring to is when Jesus was annointed by the woman at Bethany is preparation for his burial. Mark 14:1-9. Jesus said in verse 7 "The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them anytime you want. But you will not always have me."

That is the context Jesus was speaking from. What was he saying to the disciples then and to us now when he said that?

by: BlueDeacon

03-10-2010 @ 1:38pm

Clearly the Bible does call for Christians to show compassion to the poor and less fortunate, and much as one might oppose broad redistribution of wealth (which at a minimum is often thought of as a form of "social justice") such things are not incompatible with a belief in Jesus Christ as redeemer of mankind.

That's not the issue. What we're talking about is a restructuring of society so that the poor can make their own way w/o charity. If you're not going to try to walk in another person's shoes, you're not really being compassionate and you won't know what that person really needs (rather, you may focus on what you may want to give). Without such relationship you may have someone ask for an egg but wind up with a scorpion (see Luke 11:12).

by: titopoet

03-10-2010 @ 2:52pm

"The Gospel is not a political program, and to assert that it is, from either the left or the right, is ultimately to deny that Christ is Lord, because his Lordship goes well beyond matters of state."

I agreed. If Glenn Beck had said to run away from government officials crying "Social Justice," then I would not have any problem. It would a political statement. But he said it about "churches" and now I have a problem with that. The Catholic Church, Salvation Army, Warren's Saddleback all have talk about "social justice." Then add all of the Biblical texts that speak about Justice and speaking up for the oppressed and it is clear that Christians are called to fight for "social justice." Many Christians can and do debate the way to do God's will in terms of Justice, Government or no Government, but the call to Justice is at the heart of the Gospel. To run away from churches that speak about social justice is to run away from the Gospel.

By calling for people to run away from Churches that speak for Justice, he shows he does not understand the Gospel. I have known many fine Christians from all sides of the political spectrum practice and speak about social justice.

by: titopoet

03-11-2010 @ 2:32pm

I do listen to Beck and unfortunately for him I do know my history. If he is making the claim that Churches that use the phrase, "social justice" are using it as code word for Communism. Then History proves him wrong. The Catholic Church has been using such "code words" since 1840. Many evangelical churches used such a phrase today. He has made the claim that "progressives" at the turn of the 20th century where all closeted commies, if that is the case then he is calling Teddy Roosevelt a Commie. Huh?

Here is what Glenn Beck said about the Progressives: http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/artic...

"Now, the progressive movement, this is so insidious, Matthew, because it is the only ones who have ever written anything about our history, I mean, for instance, and I don't want to get into this, but Woodrow Wilson nobody knows anything about. One evil son of a bitch. And nobody knows it. Nobody really knows what the progressive movement is because they've controlled history."

Now here is a list of those evil closeted commies:

* Louis Brandeis, lawyer and Supreme Court justice
* William Jennings Bryan, Democratic presidential nominee
* Lucy Burns, suffragette
* Andrew Carnegie, steel and philanthropy
* Carrie Chapman Catt, suffragette
* Herbert Croly, journalist
* John Dewey, philosopher
* W. E. B. Du Bois, philosopher, intellectual
* Thomas Edison, inventor
* Irving Fisher, economist
* Henry Ford, automaker
* Susan Glaspell, playwright, novelist
* Lewis Hine, photographer
* Charles Evans Hughes, statesman
* William James, philosopher
* John R. Mott, YMCA leader
* George Cardinal Mundelein, Catholic leader
* Alice Paul, suffragette
* Ulrich B. Phillips, historian
* Gifford Pinchot, conservationist
* Jacob Riis, reformer
* Theodore Roosevelt, President
* Elihu Root, statesman
* Anna Howard Shaw, suffragette
* Albion Small, sociologist
* Ellen Gates Starr, sociologist
* Lincoln Steffens, reporter
* Henry Stimson, statesman
* William Howard Taft, President and Chief Justice
* Frederick Winslow Taylor, efficiency expert
* Booker T. Washington, social reformist, leader
* Woodrow Wilson, President

Wow, Glenn Beck is right. What an evil bunch. Now, Glenn Beck wants to add Mother Teresa (she talk commie talk of social justice) Billy Graham, again he talk social justice. Looking at this list, I believe you, anyone that uses economic justice or social justice is a closeted commie. This guy actually created "Task Force for Project Economic Justice." Using Glenn Beck's thinking, we must be wary of this commie (President Regan) as well. http://www.cesj.org/homestead/strategies/region...

President Regan???

by: Patricia

03-11-2010 @ 1:58pm

I was referring to that specific incident, actually. When the woman at Bethany was preparing to anoint Jesus with the oil, Judas (I believe - I don't have my Bible here at my computer desk) began complaining that the money spent on the oil could have been better spent on the poor. That IS the context - Judas (or whichever disciple made this comment) was using the poor as an excuse. Jesus did not accept the excuse, and I believe his response was to the fakery of the excuse.

My point is that one cannot take isolated statements from the Scripture and not consider the context in which that statement was made.

And, BTW, I'm pretty sure the direct quote is not "...and you can help them any time you want." I think I need to go get that Bible in order to adequately respond :).

by: PASTOR JEFF

03-13-2010 @ 2:09am

"how can you pretend to have a biblically sound discussion of any kind when your core understanding of salvation is anti-biblical?"

Maybe she sees salvation as rooted in something other than the Bible?

"How does one have a rational conversation with those from your viewpoint when you hold to the ability to be able to change all rules of discussion by picking and choosing which parts of scripture you will believe?"

Because rational discussion is rooted in reason and respect and not competition over who is right?

"explain to me how one arrives at such a place to blatantly deny clear biblical teaching and still profess to be a follower of Christ."

She hasn't denied anything Biblical.

"Either Jesus meant what He said when He said salvation was not possible outside of Him or else He was a liar"

What if that is not what He meant? Then He's not a liar, Patricia can still be saved and you are merely temporarily misguided.

There are many nonbelievers among professing Christians.

You cannot know Him without loving the least of these.

by: Patricia

03-10-2010 @ 4:57pm

He SHOULD fear the Gospel. He's going to have to answer some day for deliberately perverting it. And, short of some sort of radical and active repentance, I don't think it's going to be pretty.

by: NC77

03-12-2010 @ 11:22am

Patricia,

Yes it makes sense and I like how you put it, i.e., the "tension" of faith and works. Very good way to express it. We know he said to help the poor. But we also know of the parable of those who did all kinds of works in his name, yet on judgement day he told those people to depart from him because he did not know them. And they did the works in the Lord's name no less.

So I would take exception to not being saved (by faith) if my works were not perfect. I take exception because it is also possible that if my works were perfect (and we all know that is impossible because I have already missed perfection from a young age), it is still possible I might not achieve or receive eterenal life with God. Do you know what I mean?

Anyway, I just wanted to throw that out there as food for thought and reflection on the tension between faith and works. I agree if the fruit is not there, it is likely the tree is not a fruit tree. I have seen in the past and still do today, social justice being done in the name of social justice and therefore social justice is glorified rather than Jesus.

Here are a couple of favorite scriptures relevent to the discussion. John 14:12 - "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greather things than these because I am going to the Father." and 1 John 3:17 - "If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?"

Clearly the church in America (the U.S.) is falling short of the work Jesus has called it to. I believe the answer is for the church to return to its first love, Christ, and allow him (the Holy Spirit) be the driving force. Simply sending out a call for social justice for the sake of social justice, without the regenerating work of Christ won't pass muster with God. In my opinion a call for social justice that is based secular humanism is doomed to fail because it seeks to glorify man rather than God.

by: Patricia

03-11-2010 @ 3:48pm

Ok, NC77, I've got my Gospel open to Mark :)!

First, I apologize - the translation does say "whenever you wish" in regard to having the poor and being generous with them. And, Judas is not specified as the one who complains about the money for the oil (there is a general tradition - with a small "t" on purpose, at least in the Catholic Church - that it was Judas who started the grumbling because of his over-concern with money, as you noted above).

I believe Jesus was trying to get it through the thick heads of his followers that he was, in fact, going to be put to death- soon - a truth they did not want to believe for a variety of reasons (most of them having to do with their own particular ideas about what the Messiah was "supposed" to be about). I believe he was trying to get them to quit being "indignant" about things like money, at that moment, and start preparing for his imminent death.

So, I don't believe this particular statement is a pronouncement regarding caring for the poor - especially since He is so clear in other parts of the Gospels that caring for the poor is not something we have an option to do, but something we are required to do as believers and followers of Him.

Is that what you were originally asking?

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by: Lord_Voldemort

03-10-2010 @ 1:26pm

Okay, now we have to part company. I was with you when you said that a commitment to "social justice" is not a reason to freak out and "run away" from a church. Clearly the Bible does call for Christians to show compassion to the poor and less fortunate, and much as one might oppose broad redistribution of wealth (which at a minimum is often thought of as a form of "social justice") such things are not incompatible with a belief in Jesus Christ as redeemer of mankind.

But the two are not equivalent. One can accept Christ as redeemer of fallen mankind and support a laregly market-based economy. One can believe in the death and resurrection of Christ and still support an activist state. One can be a pacifist or embrace just war theory. Or one can believe the ancient creeds of Christianity and have little interest in politics at all.

The Gospel is not a political program, and to assert that it is, from either the left or the right, is ultimately to deny that Christ is Lord, because his Lordship goes well beyond matters of state.

LV

by: Lord_Voldemort

03-10-2010 @ 1:26pm

Okay, now we have to part company. I was with you when you said that a commitment to "social justice" is not a reason to freak out and "run away" from a church. Clearly the Bible does call for Christians to show compassion to the poor and less fortunate, and much as one might oppose broad redistribution of wealth (which at a minimum is often thought of as a form of "social justice") such things are not incompatible with a belief in Jesus Christ as redeemer of mankind.

But the two are not equivalent. One can accept Christ as redeemer of fallen mankind and support a laregly market-based economy. One can believe in the death and resurrection of Christ and still support an activist state. One can be a pacifist or embrace just war theory. Or one can believe the ancient creeds of Christianity and have little interest in politics at all.

The Gospel is not a political program, and to assert that it is, from either the left or the right, is ultimately to deny that Christ is Lord, because his Lordship goes well beyond matters of state.

LV

by: BlueDeacon

03-10-2010 @ 1:38pm

Clearly the Bible does call for Christians to show compassion to the poor and less fortunate, and much as one might oppose broad redistribution of wealth (which at a minimum is often thought of as a form of "social justice") such things are not incompatible with a belief in Jesus Christ as redeemer of mankind.

That's not the issue. What we're talking about is a restructuring of society so that the poor can make their own way w/o charity. If you're not going to try to walk in another person's shoes, you're not really being compassionate and you won't know what that person really needs (rather, you may focus on what you may want to give). Without such relationship you may have someone ask for an egg but wind up with a scorpion (see Luke 11:12).

by: BlueDeacon

03-10-2010 @ 1:38pm

Clearly the Bible does call for Christians to show compassion to the poor and less fortunate, and much as one might oppose broad redistribution of wealth (which at a minimum is often thought of as a form of "social justice") such things are not incompatible with a belief in Jesus Christ as redeemer of mankind.

That's not the issue. What we're talking about is a restructuring of society so that the poor can make their own way w/o charity. If you're not going to try to walk in another person's shoes, you're not really being compassionate and you won't know what that person really needs (rather, you may focus on what you may want to give). Without such relationship you may have someone ask for an egg but wind up with a scorpion (see Luke 11:12).

by: titopoet

03-10-2010 @ 2:52pm

"The Gospel is not a political program, and to assert that it is, from either the left or the right, is ultimately to deny that Christ is Lord, because his Lordship goes well beyond matters of state."

I agreed. If Glenn Beck had said to run away from government officials crying "Social Justice," then I would not have any problem. It would a political statement. But he said it about "churches" and now I have a problem with that. The Catholic Church, Salvation Army, Warren's Saddleback all have talk about "social justice." Then add all of the Biblical texts that speak about Justice and speaking up for the oppressed and it is clear that Christians are called to fight for "social justice." Many Christians can and do debate the way to do God's will in terms of Justice, Government or no Government, but the call to Justice is at the heart of the Gospel. To run away from churches that speak about social justice is to run away from the Gospel.

By calling for people to run away from Churches that speak for Justice, he shows he does not understand the Gospel. I have known many fine Christians from all sides of the political spectrum practice and speak about social justice.

by: titopoet

03-10-2010 @ 2:52pm

"The Gospel is not a political program, and to assert that it is, from either the left or the right, is ultimately to deny that Christ is Lord, because his Lordship goes well beyond matters of state."

I agreed. If Glenn Beck had said to run away from government officials crying "Social Justice," then I would not have any problem. It would a political statement. But he said it about "churches" and now I have a problem with that. The Catholic Church, Salvation Army, Warren's Saddleback all have talk about "social justice." Then add all of the Biblical texts that speak about Justice and speaking up for the oppressed and it is clear that Christians are called to fight for "social justice." Many Christians can and do debate the way to do God's will in terms of Justice, Government or no Government, but the call to Justice is at the heart of the Gospel. To run away from churches that speak about social justice is to run away from the Gospel.

By calling for people to run away from Churches that speak for Justice, he shows he does not understand the Gospel. I have known many fine Christians from all sides of the political spectrum practice and speak about social justice.

by: Patricia

03-10-2010 @ 4:57pm

He SHOULD fear the Gospel. He's going to have to answer some day for deliberately perverting it. And, short of some sort of radical and active repentance, I don't think it's going to be pretty.

by: Patricia

03-10-2010 @ 4:57pm

He SHOULD fear the Gospel. He's going to have to answer some day for deliberately perverting it. And, short of some sort of radical and active repentance, I don't think it's going to be pretty.

by: CJTiger

03-10-2010 @ 7:19pm

Glenn Beck should fear the Gospel, since he is a Mormon

by: CJTiger

03-10-2010 @ 7:19pm

Glenn Beck should fear the Gospel, since he is a Mormon

by: Agjosh

03-10-2010 @ 7:35pm

Nice one there Patricia. Good to see that you have retained you position as God this week. Keep up the eternal judgement of those who have different social and political views than you!! I know that is certainly the way your son Jesus intended things to be.
Seriously - are you freaking kidding me? Because someone has a different political view than you, you damn them to hell for eternity? While at the same time doing so based on having a more Christian perspective? To date, I have never seen you give one biblical support to any claim you make. It seem you operate out of a totally loose isogetic view of scripture. If you believe that a political view on HOW to achieve helping those in need is any way salvatory, then you are beyond a reasonable discussion. Helping those in need is NOT the issue here, HOW we help them is the question. Anyone that thinks the only way to be active in "social justice" is to be a liberal and support socialistic-leaning policies is ignorant. i use the word ignorant not to be insulting, but because the only way to arrive at such a viewpoint is to choose to ignore (the root word of ignorant) the statistical facts of the overall American population as well as the personal testimonies of thousands. I am proud to be a fiscal and political conservative that is strongly opposed to the current social/political proposed policies. At the same time, I am a pastor that makes a middle class (at best) living and devotes countless hours to serving the needy here and around the world. The truth is that I and my family would benefit financially and otherwise from the current proposed policies - but I think they are wrong, I believe they are not biblical, and I feel that they are actually incredibly dangerous in the long run to achieving the desired goals. It is the role of the church and Christian to care for the needy and to make sacrifices to do so if need be. it is NOT our role to abdicate to the the government and to remove the personal role of service....but now I'll await you reply and see if I to have been judged to eternal separation from God because my views differ from yours.

by: Agjosh

03-10-2010 @ 7:35pm

Nice one there Patricia. Good to see that you have retained you position as God this week. Keep up the eternal judgement of those who have different social and political views than you!! I know that is certainly the way your son Jesus intended things to be.
Seriously - are you freaking kidding me? Because someone has a different political view than you, you damn them to hell for eternity? While at the same time doing so based on having a more Christian perspective? To date, I have never seen you give one biblical support to any claim you make. It seem you operate out of a totally loose isogetic view of scripture. If you believe that a political view on HOW to achieve helping those in need is any way salvatory, then you are beyond a reasonable discussion. Helping those in need is NOT the issue here, HOW we help them is the question. Anyone that thinks the only way to be active in "social justice" is to be a liberal and support socialistic-leaning policies is ignorant. i use the word ignorant not to be insulting, but because the only way to arrive at such a viewpoint is to choose to ignore (the root word of ignorant) the statistical facts of the overall American population as well as the personal testimonies of thousands. I am proud to be a fiscal and political conservative that is strongly opposed to the current social/political proposed policies. At the same time, I am a pastor that makes a middle class (at best) living and devotes countless hours to serving the needy here and around the world. The truth is that I and my family would benefit financially and otherwise from the current proposed policies - but I think they are wrong, I believe they are not biblical, and I feel that they are actually incredibly dangerous in the long run to achieving the desired goals. It is the role of the church and Christian to care for the needy and to make sacrifices to do so if need be. it is NOT our role to abdicate to the the government and to remove the personal role of service....but now I'll await you reply and see if I to have been judged to eternal separation from God because my views differ from yours.

by: Patricia

03-10-2010 @ 7:42pm

In case you missed it, I said,

"I don't think..."

Which under just about every definition I know of, constitutes not eternal judgment, as you accuse, but merely personal opinion.

Are you saying that I am not entitled to my opinion?

I don't appreciate you misconstruing what I've said.

by: Patricia

03-10-2010 @ 7:42pm

In case you missed it, I said,

"I don't think..."

Which under just about every definition I know of, constitutes not eternal judgment, as you accuse, but merely personal opinion.

Are you saying that I am not entitled to my opinion?

I don't appreciate you misconstruing what I've said.

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03-10-2010 @ 8:03pm

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by: RachelK

03-10-2010 @ 8:09pm

"Now we have to part company."
Bye.

by: RachelK

03-10-2010 @ 8:09pm

"Now we have to part company."
Bye.

by: NC77

03-10-2010 @ 8:43pm

What we're talking about is a restructuring of society so that the poor can make their own way w/o charity.

I question if Jesus ever preached this. Jesus was completely non political.

by: NC77

03-10-2010 @ 8:43pm

What we're talking about is a restructuring of society so that the poor can make their own way w/o charity.

I question if Jesus ever preached this. Jesus was completely non political.

by: NC77

03-10-2010 @ 8:49pm

I have always understood the Gospel to be good news and not something to be feared. The scriptures instruct us to fear God. Proverbs 9:10 is one of my favorites. There are many more concerning the fear of God. We will all have to answer some day and that is why we should all fear (which means reverent respect of God for what he is).

by: NC77

03-10-2010 @ 8:49pm

I have always understood the Gospel to be good news and not something to be feared. The scriptures instruct us to fear God. Proverbs 9:10 is one of my favorites. There are many more concerning the fear of God. We will all have to answer some day and that is why we should all fear (which means reverent respect of God for what he is).

by: liberalinlove

03-10-2010 @ 8:55pm

He did say to Love our neighbor as ourselves. I have to wonder if I were in someone else's shoes, how I would like to be treated.

by: liberalinlove

03-10-2010 @ 8:55pm

He did say to Love our neighbor as ourselves. I have to wonder if I were in someone else's shoes, how I would like to be treated.

by: liberalinlove

03-10-2010 @ 8:58pm

How much of your income is exempt from taxes. Just curious. I've always wondered how the church can be tax free, and so openly opposed to government helping others.

by: liberalinlove

03-10-2010 @ 8:58pm

How much of your income is exempt from taxes. Just curious. I've always wondered how the church can be tax free, and so openly opposed to government helping others.

by: NC77

03-10-2010 @ 9:04pm

Good point. But to love someone like I would prefer to be loved does not require me to be in somone elses shoes. I already know how I would like to treated without being in someone elses shoes. And so I treat people that way, i.e., the way I would like to be treated.

Ironically, if we are to walk in someone elses shoes it is to walk in only one other person's shoes, Jesus commanded us to walk in his shoes.

"If any one come after me, let him pick up his cross daily, deny himself, and follow me."

by: NC77

03-10-2010 @ 9:04pm

Good point. But to love someone like I would prefer to be loved does not require me to be in somone elses shoes. I already know how I would like to treated without being in someone elses shoes. And so I treat people that way, i.e., the way I would like to be treated.

Ironically, if we are to walk in someone elses shoes it is to walk in only one other person's shoes, Jesus commanded us to walk in his shoes.

"If any one come after me, let him pick up his cross daily, deny himself, and follow me."

by: NC77

03-10-2010 @ 9:09pm

BTW. Jesus said we would always have the poor with us. Do you know what he meant when he said that?

by: NC77

03-10-2010 @ 9:09pm

BTW. Jesus said we would always have the poor with us. Do you know what he meant when he said that?

by: Patricia

03-10-2010 @ 9:33pm

And, in what context did he say that? The context of Judas using the plight poor to advance his own agenda!

by: Patricia

03-10-2010 @ 9:33pm

And, in what context did he say that? The context of Judas using the plight poor to advance his own agenda!

by: BlueDeacon

03-10-2010 @ 9:58pm

Not quite -- because of the times He couldn't have been merely non-political;
the Roman government had its eye on him because, in that day, the term
"Messiah" was fraught with political overtones. He was more accurately
non-partisan.

by: BlueDeacon

03-10-2010 @ 9:58pm

Not quite -- because of the times He couldn't have been merely non-political;
the Roman government had its eye on him because, in that day, the term
"Messiah" was fraught with political overtones. He was more accurately
non-partisan.

by: LaurelK

03-10-2010 @ 10:15pm

We can only pray that one day Glen Beck will be converted to Christianity.

by: LaurelK

03-10-2010 @ 10:15pm

We can only pray that one day Glen Beck will be converted to Christianity.

by: kansasmennonite

03-10-2010 @ 10:25pm

I don't want to claim him-do you :)

by: kansasmennonite

03-10-2010 @ 10:25pm

I don't want to claim him-do you :)

by: Agjosh

03-10-2010 @ 10:55pm

The percentage of my compensation that is tax exempt is not that great, and the amount I give away more than matches that tax break....and I've always wondered how long the church will be allowed to remain tax exempt if the government takes over all social programs. Which should actually concern those who care about the church at all as most churches could not operate without the tax exemption - and I don't mean the mega churches or over-programmed places - I mean the home churches and little congregations.

by: Agjosh

03-10-2010 @ 10:55pm

The percentage of my compensation that is tax exempt is not that great, and the amount I give away more than matches that tax break....and I've always wondered how long the church will be allowed to remain tax exempt if the government takes over all social programs. Which should actually concern those who care about the church at all as most churches could not operate without the tax exemption - and I don't mean the mega churches or over-programmed places - I mean the home churches and little congregations.

by: Agjosh

03-10-2010 @ 10:59pm

Again I am amazed by the intolerant and judgmental attitude of the liberals here...it far surpasses anything I have ever come across on any conservative site. I'll claim him - I'll claim anyone that desires to follow Christ. I thought that was a large part of the mission. I guess I missed the part in the Bible where we got to choose who we prayed for and sought for the Kingdom....but then, there are a lot of things spewed here that I have never seen in scripture.

by: Agjosh

03-10-2010 @ 10:59pm

Again I am amazed by the intolerant and judgmental attitude of the liberals here...it far surpasses anything I have ever come across on any conservative site. I'll claim him - I'll claim anyone that desires to follow Christ. I thought that was a large part of the mission. I guess I missed the part in the Bible where we got to choose who we prayed for and sought for the Kingdom....but then, there are a lot of things spewed here that I have never seen in scripture.

by: Agjosh

03-10-2010 @ 11:08pm

What you said was "He SHOULD fear the gospel"...as in, he should fear the good news that Christ died for all sinners. Seems pretty judgmental to me. I could maybe even understand fearing God's justice (which is the only justice that really matters ironically), but fearing the gospel? How does that one work?

As to your opinion, you are certainly entitled to it. However, I am tired of liberal "theology" that seeks to destroy the church and I will call you and everyone else out who corrupts, abuses, and violates Biblical orthodoxy. Furthermore, when your opinion is judgmental, I will hold out that fact the same as I would with a member of the KKK or any other radical group that twist scripture to fit their own personal opinions, agendas, etc...

I do not distort anything you say - I call you into accountability about it. I challenge you to back up your opinions with scripture. I don't give a flip about your opinion, but I'll give my life for the truths of scripture. So when you try to place your opinion over scripture or use it to twist orthodoxy, I will call you out. I will not stop. I will not recant.

by: Agjosh

03-10-2010 @ 11:08pm

What you said was "He SHOULD fear the gospel"...as in, he should fear the good news that Christ died for all sinners. Seems pretty judgmental to me. I could maybe even understand fearing God's justice (which is the only justice that really matters ironically), but fearing the gospel? How does that one work?

As to your opinion, you are certainly entitled to it. However, I am tired of liberal "theology" that seeks to destroy the church and I will call you and everyone else out who corrupts, abuses, and violates Biblical orthodoxy. Furthermore, when your opinion is judgmental, I will hold out that fact the same as I would with a member of the KKK or any other radical group that twist scripture to fit their own personal opinions, agendas, etc...

I do not distort anything you say - I call you into accountability about it. I challenge you to back up your opinions with scripture. I don't give a flip about your opinion, but I'll give my life for the truths of scripture. So when you try to place your opinion over scripture or use it to twist orthodoxy, I will call you out. I will not stop. I will not recant.

by: Jesusistheway

03-10-2010 @ 11:38pm

A great showing of agape love

by: Jesusistheway

03-10-2010 @ 11:38pm

A great showing of agape love

by: liberalinlove

03-11-2010 @ 12:07am

Do you believe the only reason people give now to support their churches are for tax purposes. I am a P.K. and we grew up dirt poor. All things being equal, I've wondered if there can be a more equitable tax as those who have lots of money seem to know how to get all the tax breaks. My husband paid more taxes than President Nixon, yet he didn't make enough to live on the year he owed them.

by: liberalinlove

03-11-2010 @ 12:07am

Do you believe the only reason people give now to support their churches are for tax purposes. I am a P.K. and we grew up dirt poor. All things being equal, I've wondered if there can be a more equitable tax as those who have lots of money seem to know how to get all the tax breaks. My husband paid more taxes than President Nixon, yet he didn't make enough to live on the year he owed them.

by: Patricia

03-11-2010 @ 12:23am

You are again assuming your interpretation is correct - it is not.

You are assuming: "as in, he should fear the good news that Christ died for all sinners." That is not correct.

Why don't you just respectfully ask me what I mean, instead of assuming? I would happily explain and engage in honest dialogue.

You're making a lot of judgmental assumptions yourself regarding my theology and motives.

I could make the same comment to you that you made to me: "Good to see that you have retained you position as God this week. Keep up the eternal judgement of those who have different social and political views than you!!"

Your own comments reflect exactly the attitude you were complaining about.

by: Patricia

03-11-2010 @ 12:23am

You are again assuming your interpretation is correct - it is not.

You are assuming: "as in, he should fear the good news that Christ died for all sinners." That is not correct.

Why don't you just respectfully ask me what I mean, instead of assuming? I would happily explain and engage in honest dialogue.

You're making a lot of judgmental assumptions yourself regarding my theology and motives.

I could make the same comment to you that you made to me: "Good to see that you have retained you position as God this week. Keep up the eternal judgement of those who have different social and political views than you!!"

Your own comments reflect exactly the attitude you were complaining about.

by: kansasmennonite

03-11-2010 @ 12:38am

It's tongue and cheek. Do you really think Beck desires to follow Christ? You're doing a lot of spewing yourself. So you're a pastor (conservative one) that came on this site to set progressors staight? This is a progressor site so expect to have pushback.

Maybe if you would benefit from some gov't help it wouldn't hurt you at all. Would give you a chance to do some help for others you wouldn't possible to able to but you generalize way to much to know what programs you're thinking of, etc.