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An Invitation to Glenn Beck

by Jim Wallis 03-12-2010 | 8:33pm
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Dear Glenn,

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Since I challenged your saying that "social justice" was a code word for Communism and Nazism, and your calling on Christians to leave their churches if their pastors preach social justice, you have begun to modify what you are saying -- and I appreciate that. You said social justice was a "perversion of the gospel" and I countered that to assert that instead, it is at the heart of the gospel and part of the core meaning of biblical faith. And the church authorities you wanted Christians to turn their pastors in to would all agree that social, economic, and racial justice are all integral to the message of Jesus.

But now you've moved from labeling social justice as Communist or Fascist to saying it only means "big government" and that it violates the separation of church and state. Then you said that some Christians mean Marxism by that term, but some do not. Then you said that if social justice means "empowering" people to act individually that might be okay. Well, that's progress, but there's still some needed conversation here. Christians can have different views of the role of government but still agree that social justice is crucial. Very few who believe that are "Marxists." And while we all preach empowerment to live out the gospel, we don't think the meaning of social justice should be reduced to just private charity. Biblical justice also involves changing structures, institutions, systems, and policies; as well as changing hearts to be more generous. So there is still a lot to talk about here.

I am glad to see you are beginning to recognize the deep richness of the term "social justice." I, and my organization, Sojourners, have committed 35 years to exploring this and in working with Christians across the spectrum to deepen their commitment to this essential, biblical concept. Now that you're willing to admit that social justice is more than just a code word, we have a wonderful opportunity for the two of us to sit down together and have an open and public discussion on what social justice really means and how Christians are called to engage in the struggle for justice.

Why don't we do that, on your show, or in some other venue. And let's make this a civil dialogue and not engage in personal attacks on each other -- which is never helpful in trying to sort out what is true. So let's talk about the heart of the matter. When would you like to get together for this conversation?

Blessings,
Jim Wallis

portrait-jim-wallisJim Wallis is the author of Rediscovering Values: On Wall Street, Main Street, and Your Street -- A Moral Compass for the New Economy, CEO of Sojourners and blogs at www.godspolitics.com.

Click here to tell Glenn Beck that you support social justice

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by: scat

03-18-2010 @ 11:35pm

Caring for the poor is much less associated with a particular religious view than are the issues of abortion and homosexuality. One can quite easily be an atheist and see the value of caring for the disadvantaged. Even the far-right tries to divorce that issue from what they consider a true reading of the Bible. And the left is much less interested in demanding a consensus on religious views and more interested in religious diversity.

by: bigmc58

03-13-2010 @ 3:41am

I am most definitely painting a utopian picture that is, I believe based on a right understanding of scripture. I agree that in our society government and church do interact through tax policy. I personally feel all churches should pay taxes. Again this is Biblical. Tax exempt status is an insidious connection that weakens the role of the church. It would be fascinating to see who would continue to support the church financially if there wasn't a tax break involved.

My utopian view is that if every church on every corner in every city, town and hamlet were to take seriously Jesus' charge found in Matthew we wouldn't need government supporting us. Government could focus on it's few and narrow responsibilities free from having to provide health care, welfare, food stamps, education funding, social security, etc., etc., etc. Then the resources they aren't taking away from us could be applied to the care of people through a process that's much closer to the people in need and can, therefore, be much, much more effective with far less waste, corruption, fraud and abuse.

I feel desperately sad for everyone who thinks what our government is currently pursuing under the guise of health care reform is actually going to accomplish anything for people who are truly in need.

by: BlueDeacon

03-14-2010 @ 11:25pm

No, although there's nothing wrong with militancy in its own right. You see, Wallis is willing to work with folks of different political persuasions to solve problems; Dobson couldn't afford to lest his subscriber base shrink. In other words, Wallis didn't and doesn't see politics as the more important thing, while it was a form of idolatry for Dobson.

by: kansasmennonite

03-14-2010 @ 1:24am

I just heard that medicare kept their part of health care costs to 4.5% per yr for the last 10 yrs and health insurance companies kept costs at 7.5%. Which indenty is working for you and me?

You're right though. Our gov't can't be trusted with the military. Too complicated.

by: kansasmennonite

03-13-2010 @ 3:12am

Um, I believe I said we need both the church and gov't to be involved and not only the gov't! It sounds like you want the gov't to provide zero relief to countries that need it. Peopler who need. etc. Is that true?

I am a believer in seperation of church and state but this is an entirely different animal. I never said the gov't should do it all for us. There are simply things the gov't can do that churchs can't do and vis versa. What's so hard for you to understand that!

As a christian one would hope the gov't acted like a moral and decent entity wouldn't you? I don't believe we are a "christian nation" and our allegiance should be to God but this isn't about "worshipping" a nation.

Have you read any of Wallis's books? Are you ready to give up your medicare when you get older and hope the local church can provide your $100k surgery that is needed? Maybe some politicians can run on your policy's? Vote for me, I'm the one who doesn't want to help anyone with your money except myself!

by: steelemagnolia

03-14-2010 @ 11:17pm

You must've missed Catholic Social Teaching 101. I studied it in college - and I wasn't even Catholic. It's solidly located during the papcy of Pope Leo Xlll and in his encyclical Rerum Nevarum. I will not surmise it here - but it would make sense to read it. It's well though out, has biblical underpinnings, and is very well thought out (as the encylicals are). The teachings on Social Justice of the Catholic Church are her best kept secret. She doesn't bend to the political winds of the day - and in that the Catholic Church stands alone. You should be proud of that.

by: kansasmennonite

03-14-2010 @ 1:20am

This is a progressive site. It's your job to state specifically what programs need to be shelved.

by: veganinvancouver

03-13-2010 @ 3:07am

While I see your point, you ignore that one the Church and government do interact with each other and actually the Church benefits from the government in tax capacity - so while you would like to think they are separate they are not.

Yes the Church - and for that matter all religious institutions - since social justice is by no means limited to Christians - should be focused on the care of those in their communities regardless of their socioeconomic status, race, education or life style choice, but we aren't, plain and simple. And so either we get really serious as churches/communities/places of worship about providing non-biased health care services/insurance, pensions, food stamps, jobs and any other forms of assistance to our surrounding communities or we realize that there are times and places where we can work parallel with government systems by advocating reform and change where the system currently is failing. That is what is happening here - we are advocating for those 46 million without health care - saying that we can't cover all those people, but we do believe they should be covered and that is why health care reform needs to go forward.

by: kansasmennonite

03-14-2010 @ 1:18am

Now you've gone too far. Bringing up abortion and claiming that tax dollars are going toward this. How can you justify this?

by: kansasmennonite

03-14-2010 @ 1:15am

Non of these people would have a job if you flushed all the easy answerers! Hey, that's an idea!

No, that wasn't a good answer (my previous sentences). If they went to Haiti and worked there they would probably act more like Wallis.

by: kansasmennonite

03-14-2010 @ 1:12am

If you knew Wallis's opinoins and read some of his books your accusing would have been answered. I don't believe Wallis pushes a political agenda like you are describing (taliban, etc.). He's far to the left of that spectrum. Your confusing Wallis with the religious right who want a theocrocy. Progressives don't want a theocracy. They are frequently accused to being too easy on allowing other religions their place in society.

The duty of christianity is basic human needs that most religions agree on. Do you understand that?

by: veganinvancouver

03-13-2010 @ 4:01am

Fair enough, and if we lived in that Utopian world or it was feasible we wouldn't be having this discussion. But we are not and as such we have to have this discussion. Quite simply we are selfish people - (the book) James is a perfect biblical example of our personal resistance to level out the playing field so to speak. We are a society of keeping up with the Jones' and darn it if someone is better than us in any way. That feeling is not new and nor do I believe because of the presence of sin in all of our lives are we ever going to be able to be perfectly selfless or driven enough to create that Utopia, which you are not alone in desiring.

So then Utopia is out of the question - what then? Well we have a society with a large percentage without health care and other basic needs covered and how that happened and or why is not where we are going as seen in previous posts commenting about people's laziness etc. The issue is this what now? Do we follow the belief as Mr. Beck has said that health care reform is communism/nazism or that it is our best offer at trying to plug the holes in the system as it stands and start the process of scaffolding around those who need advocating. Does the Church stop and not get involved - absolutely not - they need to be more involved than ever, trimming down their excess, giving more and getting to the heart of the issues - we're flawed, we're messy, we're leaving people behind and there is a God who sent his son who while he was here showed us how to live our daily lives and died for our sins and we've missed that somehow.

As an aside as a first generation German immigrant and of ethnic Jewish heritage the throwing around the word Nazism, is really incredibly disturbing as it minimizes the trauma of true Nazism, it is now seen as no longer taboo and/or it's now an appropriate scare tactic - health care reform is not mass elimination of people groups deemed undesirable - there is no connection anywhere even in the views of socialism that are aligned with the fundamental purpose of Hitler's actions - so for that alone Mr. Beck shame on you for negating those who have suffered in your ratings attempts.

by: Patricia

03-13-2010 @ 4:00am

The majority of the people who put them in place - 66+% - want Medicare to be extended to all Americans instead of continuing with our current system.

The majority of Americans WANT government-administered health insurance.

That is not what we're getting in this bill, but this bill is a start in addressing the problem.

The only bill the majority of Americans are opposed to is the false, distorted version they have been deceived by Republicans and "conservatives" into believing is the one under consideration.

The majority of Americans want the changes that are contained in the actual health care reform bill, once they are truthfully informed about what those are.

Forget about Russia - Look at Canada, Germany, France, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Japan, Taiwan, and every other industrialized nation in the world (they all have some sort of government-administered health insurance system) if you really want to see the difference between what we have and what they have. Three things to start with, for comparisons - 1. Every citizen in those nations is covered and has access to health care, and, 2. Every one of those nations spends half or less than we do on their health care costs, and, 3. Every one of those nations has healthier populations than we do.

by: NMRod

03-14-2010 @ 3:58am

Gee whiz, when you say Mr. Beck is simply identifying cults, you leave out the fact that he is a member of an organization considered to be a cult due to its bizarre theology. Not only that, but he converted to it - by choice. That is indeed his freedom and choice, but his advice to others to leave their Christian faith could credibly be then attributed to being an accuser against the faithful, in the meaning of the word, Satanic.

But the reality of what is going on is this - propaganda.

Beck is billionaire opinion-manufacturer Rupert Murdoch's useful idiot, distracting and deflecting the attention of the masses Murdoch holds in contempt, away from his own financial aristocracy, whose untrammeled greed and sense of endless entitlement has caused the angst and suffering his viewers are enduring.

Or, less charitably, Beck is a knowing and willing accomplice to mass deception.

by: NMRod

03-14-2010 @ 3:39am

"I don't worship this nation. In fact I believe this nation is experiencing its last days as a democratic republic. It's been a good run but those who've inflated the role of government for the past 90 or so years elevating it to a bloated, angry, voracious, Orwellian beast are just about to succeed in writing the final chapter for our grand experiment."

The truth is that it's always been grandiose in expression rather than grand in moral practice. It was built, unfortunately, on a belief in a divinely-mandated expropriation and theft of an entire continent from other people conveniently dismissed as mere animals and inhuman. Then much of the wealth was built on the forced labor of slaves kidnapped from their lands by violence, justified because the mission was again "divine" and the slaves also mere animals in human body form.

It really hasn't ever been fully democratic. There have always been many millions of inhabitants excluded from voting, for one reason or another, at all times of its existence, including today. No doubt those with power at any of those times will argue that there's good reason for excluding them. But the real reasons have to do with greed and power.

Moreover, democratic control, with direction from the population itself, has always been an illusion, because of the ability of wealthy elites to pay for the manufacture of public opinion. Rupert Murdoch, today, has such he pays as Glenn Beck to deflect attention away from the real culprits who caused our current severe economic dislocation and suffering. The voters surely vote, most often apathetically in pathetically minority turnout, but whomever they vote for has already been purchased by the wealthy who fund his election campaign. Once in power, those interests are always well-served, in our firmly entrenched influence-peddling political system.

Moreover, the direction this could credibly take, which has been taken, was well laid out for us long ago by Alexis de Toqueville in "Democracy in America."

Every collapse is incipient in its own origins and America's trajectory is hardly unique to any empire. If America saw itself for what it really was and is instead of in terms of flattering myths there could at least be amelioration of the worst excesses and a better path forward. But we are addicted to our own self-image of being "exceptional" - in other words, above the sins and foibles of other peoples - which is ironic, since most of us here, except those from whom the land was stolen and experienced genocide and slavery, are drawn from the very blood of those we so often revile as "foreign" and "alien." And of course, we then continue on the path of taking what belongs to others, for our own use, on the grounds of an intentional misunderstanding that we are doing it all for some higher purpose rather than simply because we want to. In other words, theft has been intrinsic all along, and there's no honor even among our own thieves, as we now discover.

by: prgrs_ev

03-14-2010 @ 3:38am

I don't know where you're getting your information but in my area there are several progressive evangelical churches with 3000-5000 members and they are growing wondefully.

Beck is right but only in the political sense of the word.

by: ThereelPatriot

03-14-2010 @ 3:24am

Beck is right - Liberal Christian Churches are alienating members and losing them in droves. I have never seen such an agenda in my lifetime. Its mostly about gay marriage - don't let anyone fool you.

by: squeaky

03-14-2010 @ 3:59am

They edited you?

You are having different issues than I. But it sounds as if others are having problems, too.

I'm on spring break this week, so I probably won't be back much, and it will be a welcome respite. After that, I'm not sure how much I'll be back if they don't get this fixed before I get back. I have to quit out of my web-browser and reload the site after every comment I post. That gets old fast.

They really seem to ignore the pleas from those who beg for them to fix things. And they don't seem to care whether or not we who use the site want changes. They just change things without asking. This format is ridiculous and lame.

Cheers!

by: scat

03-15-2010 @ 1:57am

Actually, I don't think kansas. is that far off the mark. The right may not want to be publicly theocratic, but they have no qualms about wanting to holdthe power behind the throne, so to speak. I have heard them talk about having to outlaw Islam for instance. They have worked tirelessly to install thier own in public positions and expect those persons to promote their agenda. Of course, it may be unrealistic pipedreams, but that doesn't stop the desire. They would love it if they didn't have to contend with those who disagree with them.

by: uberVU - social comments

03-13-2010 @ 1:24am

Social comments and analytics for this post...

This post was mentioned on Twitter by sojourners: An Invitation to Glenn Beck by @jimwallis http://su.pr/6afxTd...

by: scat

03-15-2010 @ 1:50am

Thaf's why He admonishes us to not sit in judgement of others. It is perilous and more often than not, we are wrong. We should all have learned that lesson by now. How many times have we to feel shame for misjudging someone when we learn alll the real facts.

by: kansasmennonite

03-12-2010 @ 11:16pm

Should the gov't be involved in any relief to Haiti, etc? Are you that paranoid of your gov't? Do you believe that we have a Christian nation?
Are you willing to dump all of the social programs that the gov't currently provides? What other country in the industrilized world takes this view? What third world countries take this view?

I believe it takes both the church and gov't to act on social and justice issures. Have you read Jim's books on the history of civil rights, etc?

I see you're another 1 post commentor. Probably the last we'll see of you.

by: PASTOR JEFF

03-16-2010 @ 2:22am

Well he was a Jew, after all.

by: scat

03-15-2010 @ 1:45am

Yup!They deleted the first paragraph of my original post.

Sometimes I visualize a goofy little guy behind a curtain , ala Wizard of Oz, but he's finally having a nervous breakdown and as a last explosive moment he created this monstrous format to drive us all out of his fiefdom.

by: leatherneck918

03-12-2010 @ 11:16pm

Well, Well Jim Wallis... You will do well by turning the other cheek. I think the reason you got upset with what Beck stated. Is because it hit close to mark with you. A church has only one reason. To teach the word of GOD, not of man. GOD is not a liberal, Conservative, or any other name we call each other. You will do well by teaching the word of GOD and not attacking others with your propaganda (Politics). GOD has no tolerance of a false preacher....

by: Drummond51

03-14-2010 @ 5:44am

The heart of the gospel is redemption, and the essence of redemption is the substitutionary sacrifice of Christ. It is not any other thing.

by: PASTOR JEFF

03-16-2010 @ 2:19am

Well, if you've studied it, there's no leading you.

You mean the benevolent one with the rod of iron, or the benevolent one that rules 100% compliant ones after the destruction of all opposition?

by: kansasmennonite

03-15-2010 @ 1:39am

Does Dobson not have a political arm website? Boy, where have you been hiding?

Do you remember the video his political arm produced that called for rain during the democratic convention in Denver? They pulled the video after an uprising but still can get it on utube probably.

by: PASTOR JEFF

03-16-2010 @ 2:16am

"nor did I claim NT Hebrew"
"the discussion about women keeping silent contains Hebrew wording that quite often is translated as talking but should more accurately be translated as gossiping."

You're too advanced for this simple 21st century backwater.

by: scat

03-15-2010 @ 1:31am

"We the People" are not rquired to be Christians.

by: kansasmennonite

03-15-2010 @ 1:31am

And Sarah Palin "stole" money from the oil companies fund so there could be a "paycheck" for every adult and child in the state and we're paying for it down here in the lower 48. That's redistribution too! Wasn't it the democrats that got in trouble trying to tax windfall profits to lower gas prices and Sarah didn't have any trouble taxing them and making us pay the cost. Sorry for the bad wording of my post.

by: kansasmennonite

03-15-2010 @ 1:26am

I understand that Dobson has some close friends that are highl involved in some private military companies and have contributed mighttily to his org. and that is part of the reason he's so pro military and wars. Clearly a conflict he just passes off.

by: scat

03-15-2010 @ 1:26am

Thank you for your very moving testimonial. I know it is very hard to look back and acknowledge how pathetic we were when we thought we were such good people. Like you, I have come to understand that you either care about others or you don't. I think a lot of the "church-attending" and all the ritualistic behaviour that we call piety is just a way of avoiding doing what we are really supposed to do as modeled for us by Christ.
You siad it very eloquently when you said that giving is how we live and understand as community. When I first started down this road I prayed the same thing every morning -- for God to help me be helpful to others. At the time I was stone-cold broke so it was not about money. It was more about how to live. Living for myself and the stuff I could collect was totally empty. Over the years, it has become a way of life and it brings me more joy than I could ever have imagined, to the point it almost seems selfish. Now I mostly say a prayer of thanks to God for helping me to be helpful. And I still don't have a lot of money but I never seem to run out of ways to be helpful.

by: Sharon74

03-14-2010 @ 11:33am

Preaching the gospel of Obama and Soros is not social justice as taugh in the Bible.

by: kansasmennonite

03-15-2010 @ 1:24am

you left me wantint to hear more of your side of the story and not just a pat comment "ther's more to the story". You called me ignorant. Are you on the side of health care insurance that has risen 7.5%? I don't know what "working for me" means and I doubt anyone else besides yourself does either. Some clarification is in order.

by: kansasmennonite

03-15-2010 @ 1:21am

For your information, Greg Boyd has talked at some Mennonite colleges about his book and these collegs would I suspect be mostly in line with Wallis. Probably don't like Dobson beacause of his antigay and antipeace stance.

by: prgrs_ev

03-13-2010 @ 4:29am

Again, your data come from?????????

by: prgrs_ev

03-15-2010 @ 1:12am

I was not refuting what you are stating, I was responding to dnm49. The blog software is not functioning correctly and I have reposrted it. I am sorry for the misunderstanding. I agree with your premise.

by: prgrs_ev

03-13-2010 @ 4:28am

"Jesus was all for helping the poor and needy,but I don't see anywhere he condoned laziness.I dare say there are more lazy freeloaders than those who actually need help.You have ignorant and illiterate people because they want to be not because society has made them that way."

dnm49 - you make some fairly outrageous generalizations here. And you get your data regarding these statements from??????

by: scat

03-15-2010 @ 1:07am

It figures, the only thing they have fixed is a feature that was not a problem.

by: bigmc58

03-13-2010 @ 4:09am

I'm saying the church and government are both vitally important to a civil society and each has a role to play. Government is not equipped to dole out aid domestically or internationally. By equipped I don't mean that they have access to a printing press where they can crank out money indiscriminately. I mean that governments take money and use it as leverage not aid. It looks good, but don't be naive. Government money always comes with strings attached...always. Government money invariably feeds waste, fraud and abuse because government is not equipped to get close enough to those receiving the aid to see that they are truly benefiting. The most effective relief offered to victims of Katrina came from and continues to come from faith based organizations. Government money was stolen, misappropriated and misspent. Not all of it, but much, much, much more of it than were the dollars given through non-government organizations.

Money given by governments to other governments is most often used to protect and strengthen despotic regimes. Aid meant to help people is actually used to control and punish them. NGO agencies with people on the ground actually deliver real aid. So, yes I do contend that zero relief should come from governments.

Government should act in a moral and decent way. It should protect people from the vagaries of bad actors who wish only to take advantage of others. They should limit lawyers ability to indiscriminately sue doctors and hospitals. They should set standards for insurance companies, banks, businesses and see that those free market enterprises play fair and by the rules. They should protect a vibrant environment where hard working people can enjoy unlimited opportunities to succeed and not rescue them when they fail so they can pick themselves up and go after success again. They are not equipped, nor should they, actually provide any direct financial aid. They should not restrict the free exercise of religion in any way shape or form including allowing churches the freedom to interpret scripture as they understand it and practice their faith accordingly...even if it appears intolerant or prejudicial.

I don't worship this nation. In fact I believe this nation is experiencing its last days as a democratic republic. It's been a good run but those who've inflated the role of government for the past 90 or so years elevating it to a bloated, angry, voracious, Orwellian beast are just about to succeed in writing the final chapter for our grand experiment.

I've not read any of Wallis's books...more from lack of time than lack of interest. I have, however, read much of Brian McLaren who is also a contributor here and have been challenged by his writings in a very good way. I'm sure there is much Jim has to say with which I might agree. However, I'll never be convinced that government and church working together will ever be a good idea that is sustainable for the long term.

Finally, yes, I'm ready to give up my Medicare, Social Security and any other government hand out. My faith is in the Lord who owns the earth and all that is in it. He is my provider not the government, not my employer, not my church. He will provide in ways I cannot comprehend, nor do I need to. And I don't need a politician to help people with my money. I need to keep my money to help people as I see fit and keep government out of my pocket.

by: scat

03-15-2010 @ 12:59am

Please tell us where all those jobs are. Last I heard there are hundreds of applicants for every single job that comes up. I live in a metropolitan area of about 3 million, and the jobs section of the Sunday classified section is down to about hafl a page. A lot of those are commission based sales jobs or require a special license or training. A lot of people are working fewer hours while just hanging onto the job they have. So if there is something the rest of us don't know, please share it.

by: LincolnJustice

03-13-2010 @ 4:07am

I accepted Jesus into my heart when I was 7 years of age and have followed his way for the last 73 years. JUSTICE is my name and I have been working for social justice all my life. My father was a pastor for over 40 years and preached the Good News of the Kindom of Heaven coming to Earth -- as a system of love in the structures of human society. This is social justice and the center of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Social justice is a system of sharing our daily bread with the hungry, providing clean water, homes for the homeless, clothing and health care, and release for the captives. As Jesus said, "In as much as you have done this to the lease of these, you have done it to me."

I hereby "report" myself to you, and have already reported my work for social justice to the appropriate church authorities.

by: rewiega

03-15-2010 @ 12:51am

If you work in healthcare and understand the financial ramifications you know the 4.5% costs is not "working for me."

TRUST me there are two sides to every story. Don't get to caught up in one side..it's ignorant and deceiving.

by: prgrs_ev

03-13-2010 @ 4:07am

If Wallis shouldn't talk politics according to your previous post why should it be OK for you to do it??? Hmmmmmm.....?

Note: This is in response to leathernech918 not Irishgirl 727...this Discus blog administration and programming is really goofed up...

by: scat

03-15-2010 @ 12:51am

And what are the sources and numbers for your claim that most people are in need because of thier own laziness??Are you aware of the studies that conclude that at least half of the homeless are vets? Are you saying the vets are lazy? I wish you could undersatnd how much our young soldiers in the mideast fear coming home to the mistreatment that vets from Vietnam and the Gulf War have been subjected to! That is only one of the ways we have created this problem. It's just a cop-out to blame the victims.

by: SamHamilton

03-14-2010 @ 12:33pm

Both your comment that the American "religious right" wants a theocracy and Merlin's comment comparing Wallis to the Taliban are ridiculous hyperbole. I don't agree with what Merlin said, but your retort doesn't help things.

by: squeaky

03-13-2010 @ 4:06am

Sorry for the long posting everyone. I can hardly ever get into the comments section anymore now that they switched to this hateful new format (really, am I the only one having this problem?) So I have to get it all out in one fell swoop. Sigh...

I see the clichés are out in full force tonight. "Progressives want the government to sit back and do all the work." "We want to take the money away from those who work and give it to those who won't or can't work". And my favorite: "I dare say there are more lazy freeloaders than those who actually need help" (note the lack of statistics to back up such a claim).

No wonder I never see any crows around here what with the army of strawmen that has been erected!

No one is saying the government should do all the work, nor is anyone saying to take away all the money from those who work and give it to those who don't. Nor is it true that all those who don't work are lazy freeloaders.

But wait, there are more clichés! "Sure Jesus was concerned about the poor," a statement which betrays the view that Jesus' concern was more of an afterthought rather than pretty much His entire ministry.

But wait, what about ye olde tried and true:

"Government is not designed to be involved in relief. It is inefficient, wasteful and fraught with corruption. It is my deepest desire that the government end every social program and return to it's original charge of providing safe borders, civil order and the security of maintaining the rule of law."

So, we can't trust government to provide relief, but we can trust it to provide safe borders, civil order, and security?

Of course, no discussion on so-called social justice is complete without someone bemoaning the fact that the government stole "our job" of caring for the poor. The government didn't steal "our job". The fact the government feels it needs to care for those in need is evidence that we have been neglecting our duties as His Body. And this should put us to shame-perhaps it is the reason for our anger-our anger keeps us from facing our shame. But we could take our job back, you know-if we ever get around to stop whining.

What would be really nice is if people stopped spouting this rhetoric and actually started having thoughtful conversations and discussions about how best to meet the pressing needs of the least of these. And I guess if we cared enough, we would set aside these childish ways. But, apparently we don't.

Maybe if we listened instead of demonized

by: friendlyconservaitive

03-15-2010 @ 2:25am

The top 25% of income earners pay over 86% of federal income taxes.
The bottom 50% of income earners pay less than 3% of the federal income taxes.

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-t...

Thus, at least when it comes to income taxes, the "rich" are already paying for 97% of *everything*. How much is enough?

by: SamHamilton

03-14-2010 @ 12:31pm

When you say that you don't want a preacher passing laws based on his religious views, are you saying you don't think one's religious views should play a role in public policy decisions? Or are you just saying that every single admonition in the Bible shouldn't necessarily be translated directly into U.S. law?

Also, comparing Wallis to the Taliban is ridiculous.

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: jesse3

03-12-2010 @ 7:43pm

"And let's make this a civil dialogue and not engage in personal attacks on each other

by: jesse3

03-12-2010 @ 7:43pm

"And let's make this a civil dialogue and not engage in personal attacks on each other

by: histrogeek

03-12-2010 @ 7:49pm

Bless you Mr. Wallis.

by: histrogeek

03-12-2010 @ 7:49pm

Bless you Mr. Wallis.

by: dwanlass

03-12-2010 @ 7:53pm

I have searched the Bible and I can't find any reference to "social justice" or "economic justice" anywhere. This site is obviously just another progressive tactic that attempts to use God as a way to promote their agenda....which is odd, since progressives generally want God removed from everywhere.

I contend that the phrase "Social Justice Christian" is in itself an oxymoron and goes against the doctrine of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

by: dwanlass

03-12-2010 @ 7:53pm

I have searched the Bible and I can't find any reference to "social justice" or "economic justice" anywhere. This site is obviously just another progressive tactic that attempts to use God as a way to promote their agenda....which is odd, since progressives generally want God removed from everywhere.

I contend that the phrase "Social Justice Christian" is in itself an oxymoron and goes against the doctrine of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

by: freemapa1

03-12-2010 @ 8:27pm

Rather fallacious reasoning there....

The term "social justice" was coined by the Jesuit Luigi Taparelli in the 1840s; "The Catholic Church had not yet developed a clear philosophical view regarding the great social changes that were appearing in the early nineteenth century in Europe, which led to much confusion among the Church hierarchy and laity. In response to this problem, Taparelli applied the methods of Thomism to these social problems in a coherent manner." - http://bit.ly/d2Rr3f

"Economic justice, which touches the individual person as well as the social order, encompasses the moral principles which guide us in designing our economic institutions. These institutions determine how each person earns a living, enters into contracts, exchanges goods and services with others and otherwise produces an independent material foundation for his or her economic sustenance. The ultimate purpose of economic justice is to free each person to engage creatively in the unlimited work beyond economics, that of the mind and the spirit." - http://bit.ly/dwYMaY

by: freemapa1

03-12-2010 @ 8:27pm

Rather fallacious reasoning there....

The term "social justice" was coined by the Jesuit Luigi Taparelli in the 1840s; "The Catholic Church had not yet developed a clear philosophical view regarding the great social changes that were appearing in the early nineteenth century in Europe, which led to much confusion among the Church hierarchy and laity. In response to this problem, Taparelli applied the methods of Thomism to these social problems in a coherent manner." - http://bit.ly/d2Rr3f

"Economic justice, which touches the individual person as well as the social order, encompasses the moral principles which guide us in designing our economic institutions. These institutions determine how each person earns a living, enters into contracts, exchanges goods and services with others and otherwise produces an independent material foundation for his or her economic sustenance. The ultimate purpose of economic justice is to free each person to engage creatively in the unlimited work beyond economics, that of the mind and the spirit." - http://bit.ly/dwYMaY

by: Jesusistheway

03-12-2010 @ 8:29pm

I think social justice is compatible with the gospel when it's done in Jesus' name and with agape love.

by: Jesusistheway

03-12-2010 @ 8:29pm

I think social justice is compatible with the gospel when it's done in Jesus' name and with agape love.

by: clees

03-12-2010 @ 8:32pm

Mathew 12 (NIV)

25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand.

33 "Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit.

Matthew 25 (NIV)

44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45 He will reply, "I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."
46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

by: clees

03-12-2010 @ 8:32pm

Mathew 12 (NIV)

25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand.

33 "Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit.

Matthew 25 (NIV)

44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45 He will reply, "I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."
46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

by: PASTOR JEFF

03-12-2010 @ 9:02pm

By all means, Christians should tune Beck in. That way they'll know his sponsors and then target them for letter writing and withdrawing support for their products.

by: PASTOR JEFF

03-12-2010 @ 9:02pm

By all means, Christians should tune Beck in. That way they'll know his sponsors and then target them for letter writing and withdrawing support for their products.

by: streets

03-12-2010 @ 9:07pm

Should Wallis be invited to his show - the content can easily be accessed via the internet. I certainly wouldn't watch the show. No confusion.

by: streets

03-12-2010 @ 9:07pm

Should Wallis be invited to his show - the content can easily be accessed via the internet. I certainly wouldn't watch the show. No confusion.

by: Jesusistheway

03-12-2010 @ 9:18pm

The problem with the social gospel is that it often strips the power of Jesus to transform the whole person. The Gospel of John begins with Jesus as the Word (logos) aka the Truth. Good deeds without the the Truth is devoid of power. There's a story in the gospels where Jesus commends a poor widow for giving more than all the wealthy combined because she gave from her heart. Why is it that Jesus didn't tell his disciples to go and give her some money so she wouldn't be as poor?

by: Jesusistheway

03-12-2010 @ 9:18pm

The problem with the social gospel is that it often strips the power of Jesus to transform the whole person. The Gospel of John begins with Jesus as the Word (logos) aka the Truth. Good deeds without the the Truth is devoid of power. There's a story in the gospels where Jesus commends a poor widow for giving more than all the wealthy combined because she gave from her heart. Why is it that Jesus didn't tell his disciples to go and give her some money so she wouldn't be as poor?

by: BlueDeacon

03-12-2010 @ 9:28pm

They didn't have that all that much themselves.

by: BlueDeacon

03-12-2010 @ 9:28pm

They didn't have that all that much themselves.

by: Jesusistheway

03-12-2010 @ 9:33pm

And your point being....

by: Jesusistheway

03-12-2010 @ 9:33pm

And your point being....

by: irishgirl727

03-12-2010 @ 9:36pm

For Jesus, helping the poor and the outcast is not optional: it is the essence of what it means to love God. In the parable of the last judgement he welcomes the righteous into heaven saying, "I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me." When the righteous answered that they didn't recall doing any of these things, he said, "as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me."
Is concern for the poor to be simply a private matter to be handled by charity, or does it have anything to do with politics or government? The Bible calls upon the rulers to create a just society. In a democracy, we are the rulers. We have the power to make the rules. The actions of the nation are extensions of our own actions. By our active participation or passive consent we share responsibility for what our nation does in our name. We have inherited a system that works efficiently to produce tremendous wealth, but fails to distribute that wealth equitably. It neglects the poor and it corrupts the rich. On both counts it destroys community. A decent life for all is a matter of simple justice, not charity! There are remedies that will make the system work better in the interests of all the people, but it takes active political involvement to bring them about

by: irishgirl727

03-12-2010 @ 9:36pm

For Jesus, helping the poor and the outcast is not optional: it is the essence of what it means to love God. In the parable of the last judgement he welcomes the righteous into heaven saying, "I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me." When the righteous answered that they didn't recall doing any of these things, he said, "as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me."
Is concern for the poor to be simply a private matter to be handled by charity, or does it have anything to do with politics or government? The Bible calls upon the rulers to create a just society. In a democracy, we are the rulers. We have the power to make the rules. The actions of the nation are extensions of our own actions. By our active participation or passive consent we share responsibility for what our nation does in our name. We have inherited a system that works efficiently to produce tremendous wealth, but fails to distribute that wealth equitably. It neglects the poor and it corrupts the rich. On both counts it destroys community. A decent life for all is a matter of simple justice, not charity! There are remedies that will make the system work better in the interests of all the people, but it takes active political involvement to bring them about

by: PASTOR JEFF

03-12-2010 @ 9:50pm

"Good deeds without the the Truth is devoid of power."

Yes, yes and truth without good deeds is...?

"Why is it that Jesus didn't tell his disciples to go and give her some money so she wouldn't be as poor?"

How do you know he didn't?

by: PASTOR JEFF

03-12-2010 @ 9:50pm

"Good deeds without the the Truth is devoid of power."

Yes, yes and truth without good deeds is...?

"Why is it that Jesus didn't tell his disciples to go and give her some money so she wouldn't be as poor?"

How do you know he didn't?

by: bigmc58

03-12-2010 @ 10:10pm

It is most certainly Biblical and Christian to care for those in need. Jesus made it clear that those who will be welcomed into heaven are those who cared for the hungry, poor, imprisoned, naked and homeless. It is the personal obligation of every Christian to first know God's call on your life and second to follow that call. God's design is that families care for one another and in the absence of family that the assembled church care for "widows and orphans". What is conspicuously absent from scripture is any command for government to be involved in the direct care of anyone through social programs. Government is to be honored and respected but it is not to take on roles God has given to families and churches. When Christians look to government as a partner in social justice we have wandered away from God's intention. Government will enslave, abuse and ration in the name of social justice. Any church that aligns itself with government programs will, in the end, either be called to abandon the truth of scripture or be shut down for speaking truth. Jim, I wholeheartedly agree that Christians should be rabidly involved in pursuing social justice insofar as it engages families and churches caring for those around them. If it means supporting government programs, taking government dollars or in any way climbing into bed with the government Christians should flee as fast as their feet will carry them. I welcome anyone to show me in the Holy Bible held dear by Christian churches where government is directed to take care of individuals. It's not there. Every injunction is directed at individuals within the body of believers and the body assembled...not government.

by: bigmc58

03-12-2010 @ 10:10pm

It is most certainly Biblical and Christian to care for those in need. Jesus made it clear that those who will be welcomed into heaven are those who cared for the hungry, poor, imprisoned, naked and homeless. It is the personal obligation of every Christian to first know God's call on your life and second to follow that call. God's design is that families care for one another and in the absence of family that the assembled church care for "widows and orphans". What is conspicuously absent from scripture is any command for government to be involved in the direct care of anyone through social programs. Government is to be honored and respected but it is not to take on roles God has given to families and churches. When Christians look to government as a partner in social justice we have wandered away from God's intention. Government will enslave, abuse and ration in the name of social justice. Any church that aligns itself with government programs will, in the end, either be called to abandon the truth of scripture or be shut down for speaking truth. Jim, I wholeheartedly agree that Christians should be rabidly involved in pursuing social justice insofar as it engages families and churches caring for those around them. If it means supporting government programs, taking government dollars or in any way climbing into bed with the government Christians should flee as fast as their feet will carry them. I welcome anyone to show me in the Holy Bible held dear by Christian churches where government is directed to take care of individuals. It's not there. Every injunction is directed at individuals within the body of believers and the body assembled...not government.

by: clearaire

03-12-2010 @ 10:22pm

Jim, I am glad you suggested to Glenn to have an open and public discussion. I hope he will have you on his show. When you write here on your blog you can reach a certain set of people, but if you get on Glenn's show, you can take your message to people who have only been listening to him. I pray that you will be able to have the chance to have a chance to explain what you really mean and that the people who have been listening to Glenn Beck will get a chance to hear your voice in every meaning of the phrase. If this discussion takes place, I am praying that it will be with civility, love and mutual respect so that you and Glenn can truly communicate with each other, and more importantly that the listeners can know better what is at the heart of the matter. May God bless you, and Glenn Beck and every one who hears you!

Respectfully,

by: clearaire

03-12-2010 @ 10:22pm

Jim, I am glad you suggested to Glenn to have an open and public discussion. I hope he will have you on his show. When you write here on your blog you can reach a certain set of people, but if you get on Glenn's show, you can take your message to people who have only been listening to him. I pray that you will be able to have the chance to have a chance to explain what you really mean and that the people who have been listening to Glenn Beck will get a chance to hear your voice in every meaning of the phrase. If this discussion takes place, I am praying that it will be with civility, love and mutual respect so that you and Glenn can truly communicate with each other, and more importantly that the listeners can know better what is at the heart of the matter. May God bless you, and Glenn Beck and every one who hears you!

Respectfully,

by: leatherneck918

03-12-2010 @ 11:16pm

Well, Well Jim Wallis... You will do well by turning the other cheek. I think the reason you got upset with what Beck stated. Is because it hit close to mark with you. A church has only one reason. To teach the word of GOD, not of man. GOD is not a liberal, Conservative, or any other name we call each other. You will do well by teaching the word of GOD and not attacking others with your propaganda (Politics). GOD has no tolerance of a false preacher....

by: kansasmennonite

03-12-2010 @ 11:16pm

Should the gov't be involved in any relief to Haiti, etc? Are you that paranoid of your gov't? Do you believe that we have a Christian nation?
Are you willing to dump all of the social programs that the gov't currently provides? What other country in the industrilized world takes this view? What third world countries take this view?

I believe it takes both the church and gov't to act on social and justice issures. Have you read Jim's books on the history of civil rights, etc?

I see you're another 1 post commentor. Probably the last we'll see of you.

by: kansasmennonite

03-12-2010 @ 11:16pm

Should the gov't be involved in any relief to Haiti, etc? Are you that paranoid of your gov't? Do you believe that we have a Christian nation?
Are you willing to dump all of the social programs that the gov't currently provides? What other country in the industrilized world takes this view? What third world countries take this view?

I believe it takes both the church and gov't to act on social and justice issures. Have you read Jim's books on the history of civil rights, etc?

I see you're another 1 post commentor. Probably the last we'll see of you.

by: squeaky

03-12-2010 @ 11:26pm

I love how Conservatives say God isn't political yet fail to recognize the color of their own kettle...

by: squeaky

03-12-2010 @ 11:26pm

I love how Conservatives say God isn't political yet fail to recognize the color of their own kettle...

by: AuburnTiger

03-12-2010 @ 11:50pm

Jesus said, "make disciples of all nations". You and me, not the government. Were does it say in the Bible that we are to turn over His work to the government. We are to take care of the widows and orphans. That is not my governments job. Yes, we are to pay our taxes, but I must have missed the place where Jesus said pay your taxes so the government can take care of my people. You progressives want to sit back and let the government do all the work, but that is not what we are called to do.

by: AuburnTiger

03-12-2010 @ 11:50pm

Jesus said, "make disciples of all nations". You and me, not the government. Were does it say in the Bible that we are to turn over His work to the government. We are to take care of the widows and orphans. That is not my governments job. Yes, we are to pay our taxes, but I must have missed the place where Jesus said pay your taxes so the government can take care of my people. You progressives want to sit back and let the government do all the work, but that is not what we are called to do.

by: revsue

03-13-2010 @ 12:00am

Thank you so much for taking on Glenn Beck on his ridiculous and uninformed comments. It seems important to remember that social and economic justice are biblical imperatives that transcend any economic, political system. Social justice and economic justice in the Christian community are code words for the kingdom of God and apply in any economic system around the world. The work of God's people is not capitalist, socialist, democratic, or any other economic system humanity has created.

by: revsue

03-13-2010 @ 12:00am

Thank you so much for taking on Glenn Beck on his ridiculous and uninformed comments. It seems important to remember that social and economic justice are biblical imperatives that transcend any economic, political system. Social justice and economic justice in the Christian community are code words for the kingdom of God and apply in any economic system around the world. The work of God's people is not capitalist, socialist, democratic, or any other economic system humanity has created.

by: irishgirl727

03-13-2010 @ 12:08am

Do you truely believe that politics and religion can't be intertwined? Didn't Jesus preach againt the imperial Roman government?

by: irishgirl727

03-13-2010 @ 12:08am

Do you truely believe that politics and religion can't be intertwined? Didn't Jesus preach againt the imperial Roman government?

by: freddie905

03-13-2010 @ 12:10am

So what you are saying is take someone's hard-earned money and give it away to someone who maybe refuses to work. Then what will be the wage earner's incentive to work over time if it's going to be taken away? What about our free-market system? I am all for giving my tithe to my church and I give over and above to other charities, but I am not in favor of the government taking more and more of my tax dollars. I pay the highest tax bracket already. I should be the one to say who I give my charitable dollars to -not the government!

by: freddie905

03-13-2010 @ 12:10am

So what you are saying is take someone's hard-earned money and give it away to someone who maybe refuses to work. Then what will be the wage earner's incentive to work over time if it's going to be taken away? What about our free-market system? I am all for giving my tithe to my church and I give over and above to other charities, but I am not in favor of the government taking more and more of my tax dollars. I pay the highest tax bracket already. I should be the one to say who I give my charitable dollars to -not the government!

by: pooch

03-13-2010 @ 12:12am

"The work of God's people is not capitalist, socialist, democratic, or any other economic system humanity has created."

But the government policies advocated by people claiming to do the work of God can be. That's why we're having this discussion.

by: pooch

03-13-2010 @ 12:12am

"The work of God's people is not capitalist, socialist, democratic, or any other economic system humanity has created."

But the government policies advocated by people claiming to do the work of God can be. That's why we're having this discussion.

by: Mihs

03-13-2010 @ 12:14am

"Jesus said" quite a bit more than "make disciples of all nations;" his whole message revolved around the Kingdom of Heaven and how we can prepare for that which is, and yet to come.

To fulfill the Kingdom of Heaven Jesus calls for all people to live with love as their ethic. If our collective moral compass tells our democratic government to act in a way that will help remedy social injustices, the government should comply.

Using our community's (government's, nation's, church's, etc) vast resources to help address social problems, is not an excuse for individuals to ignore his or her social responsibilities.

by: Mihs

03-13-2010 @ 12:14am

"Jesus said" quite a bit more than "make disciples of all nations;" his whole message revolved around the Kingdom of Heaven and how we can prepare for that which is, and yet to come.

To fulfill the Kingdom of Heaven Jesus calls for all people to live with love as their ethic. If our collective moral compass tells our democratic government to act in a way that will help remedy social injustices, the government should comply.

Using our community's (government's, nation's, church's, etc) vast resources to help address social problems, is not an excuse for individuals to ignore his or her social responsibilities.

by: billwilson1

03-13-2010 @ 12:16am

We are a government-of-by-and for the people. That's because we participate by voteing, and vote our conscious. Then we expect our elected official to act on our behalf. Daily the right wing bashers of beck-limbaugh-hannity etc. go for 24 hours a day pushing hatred. From the tone to the character assasinations. Military and Big business are free to ruin peoples lives free from Christian restraints if the neocons get what they want. As a Catholic anti abortion person, I see how they confuse and pass judgement to help their god of military and big business. So of, by and for the people means for the people, not detached secular or unbelieving robots. If the talk hosts are so afraid of socialism, their code for gov. help for others, than they should convince big business to stop hurting our country. From big pharma to big hedge funds to big insurance companies people of good will and Christians see the evil and the payed promoters for what it has become and needs to be accountable.

by: billwilson1

03-13-2010 @ 12:16am

We are a government-of-by-and for the people. That's because we participate by voteing, and vote our conscious. Then we expect our elected official to act on our behalf. Daily the right wing bashers of beck-limbaugh-hannity etc. go for 24 hours a day pushing hatred. From the tone to the character assasinations. Military and Big business are free to ruin peoples lives free from Christian restraints if the neocons get what they want. As a Catholic anti abortion person, I see how they confuse and pass judgement to help their god of military and big business. So of, by and for the people means for the people, not detached secular or unbelieving robots. If the talk hosts are so afraid of socialism, their code for gov. help for others, than they should convince big business to stop hurting our country. From big pharma to big hedge funds to big insurance companies people of good will and Christians see the evil and the payed promoters for what it has become and needs to be accountable.

by: freddie905

03-13-2010 @ 12:34am

What you are saying is take from people who work for their money and give it to people who won't or can't work for their's? Well, that will only work for so long, because pretty soon the people who work will soon tire of working if their money is going to be taken away and given to people who they perceive are living off them. I pay a lot of taxes, tithe to my church, and give to several other charities and volunteer. I think I should have the right to say where my charitable dollars go instead of the government. And what is a "matter of simple justice"?