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On Faith on Glenn Beck, and a Video PSA for Social Justice Christians

100419-video-social-justice-christianLast week, The Washington Post's On Faith site devoted their weekly Q&A to the debate over social justice which they titled, "Wallis vs. Beck: The politics of social justice." Jim offered his thoughts on the question last week, and did a video interview as well, but we thought it would be good to highlight some of the responses from across the spectrum. Here are some samplings.

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Stu Burguiere, executive producer of The Glenn Beck Program:

Like everyone else in America, Glenn Beck thinks "social justice" --if it's defined as charitable outreach to the poor--is a good idea. He supports it, he believes in it, he does it.

So, what's the problem? I mean, "social justice" seems like such an innocuous phrase, right? It paints a picture of fairness. I guess that's why Father Charles Coughlin used it when naming his National Union for Social Justice and his publication Social Justice Weekly. Coughlin was an anti-Semitic religious broadcaster in the 1930s, and he used the banner of social justice to attack capitalism, warn of Jewish plots against "Christian civilization", and to promote his adoration for Italian Fascist Benito Mussolini.

Bishop Vashti Murphy McKenzie of the African Methodist Episcopal Church, and Trustee at Payne Theological Seminary:

Wise guys seem to get the most play in print and broadcast media. Wise guys are the ones who sling words around with unbalanced fierceness instead of using reasoned conviction. Wise guys are those who are more interested in the victory of their opinions rather than the victory of truth. ...

Wise people tend to blend the right amount of knowledge and experience that appeal to our higher nature. Wise people strive to bring people together rather than drive people apart. They move into the midst of strife bringing peace to disorder. Wise people know the difference between confidence and arrogance while handling the truth as they know and believe it to be, and with humility in what they do not know. Wise people don't sell as well. Wise people don't always get print space or air time.

Al Mohler, President of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary:

To assert that a call for social justice is reason for faithful Christians to flee their churches is nonsense, given the Bible's overwhelming affirmation that justice is one of God's own foremost concerns.

But, there is more going on here. Glenn Beck's statements lacked nuance, fair consideration, and context. It was reckless to use a national media platform to rail against social justice in such a manner, leaving Beck with little defense against a tidal wave of biblical mandates.

A closer look at his statements reveals a political context. He made a specific reference to Rev. Jeremiah Wright and to other priests or preachers who would use "social justice" and "economic justice" as "code words." Is there anything to this?

Of course there is. Regrettably, there is no shortage of preachers who have traded the Gospel for a platform of political and economic change, most often packaged as a call for social justice. ...

There is more to that story, however. The church is not to adopt a social reform platform as its message, but the faithful church, wherever it is found, is itself a social reform movement precisely because it is populated by redeemed sinners who are called to faithfulness in following Christ. The Gospel is not a message of social salvation, but it does have social implications.

Faithful Christians can debate the proper and most effective means of organizing the political structure and the economic markets. Bringing all these things into submission to Christ is no easy task, and the Gospel must not be tied to any political system, regime, or platform. Justice is our concern because it is God's concern, but it is no easy task to know how best to seek justice in this fallen world.

Professor Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite of Chicago Theological Seminary:

While I deeply appreciate the reasoned approach of Al Mohler, as opposed to Glenn Beck's ranting, I have to disagree with Mohler's separation of the Gospel from the primacy of the care of the poor. Mohler claims "The apostles launched no social reform movement. Instead, they preached the Gospel of Christ and planted Gospel churches. Our task is to follow Christ's command and the example of the apostles."

According to the Acts of the Apostles in the New Testament, however, to follow the example of the apostles means everybody pool their money and take care of the poor. And the reason the early church did this, the text gives us to understand, is because it was central to their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. It was the way the believers showed the grace given them through their belief. There is no separation in Acts between living in the joy of the resurrection and sharing what you have. It's the same thing. Now that's not exactly socialism, but it is exactly the Gospel. What Christians have failed to do is to keep these parts of the Gospel message together. ...

Columnist and Fox News commentator Cal Thomas:

Conservatives present a half-empty gospel when they share their faith, but do not perform good works in order to demonstrate their faith is real. Liberals are equally in error when they present a half-empty gospel of calling upon government to do more, but failing to share the gospel of God's love in Jesus Christ.

Pastor Susan K. Smith of Advent United Church of Christ, Columbus, Ohio:

One of my members said to me one day that God meant for some people to be poor. She had been a member of a church where the prosperity gospel was preached, and truly believed that God sanctioned not only that some people be poor, but that they stay poor.

OK, but even if that was the case (which I don't believe), would this same God want those who could help the poor to look the other way, to shove mercy offerings at them while allowing corrupt political systems which are designed to keep separation between wealth and poverty ...to go unchallenged?

Martin Marty, author and professor emeritus of the University of Chicago:

Would all the Christians and the churches which accept any benefits of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, tax exemption and other such programs cut them off tomorrow? They all involve the government and all were backed by "social and economics minded" leaders and followers in churches, often against the odds raised and symbolized by the Glenn Becks of their past. ...

Biblical verses wisely do remind readers, "Put not your trust in princes." That usually means governments; "princes" in the media, banking, punditry, universities, and, yes, churches demand scrutiny, and their programs deserve careful evaluation, as well. But those who say that you have taken care of biblical injunctions if you simply keep government out of everything face biblical reminders with which they have to contend: The Hebrew prophets all dealt with "nations," and the apostle Paul, writing to people suffering under Nero, also said that civil "authority...is God's servant for your good (Romans 13:4). Paul even goes so far in 13:6 to urge believers to "pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants." Come on, Paul, don't press your luck in Beck's world!

Sharon Brous, founding rabbi of IKAR, a Jewish Spiritual Community in Los Angeles:

I'd like to start by thanking Glenn Beck for mobilizing the faith-based social justice movement. His incendiary rant, coupled with his cruel personal attacks and threats against Rev. Jim Wallis ("the hammer is coming... and when the hammer comes, it's gonna be hammering hard ..."), has united and galvanized Jews, Christians and Muslims around the country who see justice as an essential element of religious life and are unwilling to passively accept its mockery and denigration. (See www.socialjusticechristian.com and HaikuGlennBeck.com two great examples.)

Speaking of www.socialjusticechristian.com, here's their public service announcement, featuring "social justice Christians" from all walks of life:

And finally, to sign Sojourners' petition to tell Glenn Beck that you're a "social justice Christian," click here.

Ryan Rodrick Beiler is the Web Editor for Sojourners and a photographer whose work can be seen at www.ryarodrickbeiler.com.

Sojourners relies on the support of readers like you to sustain our message and ministry.

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by: Jesusistheway

04-20-2010 @ 3:10am

How about Sojourners leading a petition that states: I am a social justice Christian; I believe in the sanctity of life from conception of life until death; I will work for social justice for the poor and for the unborn. I will also fight against the coarsening of society; I will pledge to oppose anyone who causes any child to stumble or be hindered from coming to Jesus. In short, I am a social justice Christian who believes that sins are not just structural, but also personal.

by: BlueDeacon

04-20-2010 @ 1:03pm

We already have people -- too many, in my view -- who would support that agenda for the sake of cultural authority. We Christians, on the other hand, are supposed to be renegade, subversive outsiders infiltrating the world for Him.

by: jkc1945

04-20-2010 @ 1:02pm

Susan Brookes Thistlethwaite: ""According to the Acts of the Apostles in the New Testament, however, to follow the example of the apostles means everybody pool their money and take care of the poor."
Ms Thistlethwaite is right; that is what the early church tried. What she fails to mention is - - - it didn't work!! It was quickly abandoned as a "tenet of the gospel" when it was discovered that people, even saved people, don't "share' their things well, when driven to do it by some 'spiritual mandate.'
What does work is individual Christians, acting through the venue of the church, the Body of Christ, giving as they are called, to those who need. The government cannot do it very well. It never could. It takes a dollar of 'giving,' pays the salaries of the folks who have to handle it and the paperwork that goes with it, and then distributed the remaining 20c to 'those who they think need it.'

I don;t know, and don't much care, how "social justice" is defined. But it is best carried out when one human gives, out of his earned goods and / or services, to another human with an immediate need. No administrative costs, and he knows exactly where every penny went.

by: xfree9

04-19-2010 @ 9:16pm

Thanks for posting the various responses. I think this helps add to the civil dialogue that needs to take place.

by: ckgmailOTscholar

04-19-2010 @ 9:36pm

Al Mohler, "The gospel . . .does have social implications." The gospel is a social imperative!

by: letjusticerolldown

04-20-2010 @ 4:30pm

I started on Glenn Beck's side. Because Jim's original response twisted Beck's critique of the term.

But Beck's explicit lying about Jim Wallis, etc.; along with the reactions of Beck listeners convinced me Beck needed to be confronted.

But the more groups climb on board a "I'm a social justice Christian" message--I'm leaving. It starts to feel like, look like, walk like, talk like and act like a group of people with a political agenda who are attempting to leverage a public conversation for asserting power. Which if I think about it, was the basic critique Beck was asserting.

I think a few too many folks have their fingers gripped around a term a little too tightly for my comfort.

I'm a Jesus follower.

I will walk the journey with any social justice Christian intent on seeking Jesus.

I will walk the journey with any Beck listener intent on seeking Jesus

by: letjusticerolldown

04-20-2010 @ 4:24pm

If you wish to delineate the two statements then please complete your thought as to whether the gospel that is social imperative is only social imperative?

I infer your meaning to be that it is strictly social imperative; for if it was something more that included social imperative you could speak of it as Good News with implications for human relationships. But then you would be saying what Al Mohler said.

by: ajaske

04-22-2010 @ 7:41pm

Well, all I can say is that whatever the opinion expressed here, it is a lot better espoused than on Politics Daily!

by: liberalinlove

04-20-2010 @ 5:25pm

I believe new testament sharing had in part to do with persecution of the church and the belief that the Lord was returning soon. Under severe persecution, I have no doubt that many Christians today, as often happens in other countries, would respond in like manner. When all rights are stripped, citizens holding all things in common is necessary for survival of the individual as well as the whole.

Kingdom building means giving up personal rights and listening to the voice of Jesus to pursue our callings. That takes more faith and obedience when choice is involved.

My personal feeling is this passage has little to do with social justice as it did with survival.

by: liberalinlove

04-20-2010 @ 5:17pm

letjusticerolldown,

letting our collective voices be heard, doesn't mean that we have signed on to a singular tenet of that voice.

For me, stating I'm a social justice Christian just means, I'm acknowledging that Jesus was too. For me, a Christian by definition is one who accepts and follows the teachings of the Christ and tries to live by his example.

I know a large number of people who call themselves Christians and are also Glen Beck fans. For some reason they can't give me examples of how Beck's proclamations tie into the gospel. In fact I've gotten lots of blank stares, like what does that have to do with it.

As Paul clearly states in Galations, false Jesuses abound. It takes a steadfast heart and a commitment to truth to seek out the Jesus of the cross.

Not everyone that claims him knows him. But one way the bible says we are known is by our love one for another. I left my old crowd because I failed to see love. Not the mushy kind of sloppy love that one feels for another, but the cross kind of love that one offers another.

The backbiting rhetoric, the sneering, the confrontational attitudes, the delight in someone else's failures, the distortion of information that is used to slander and accuse and the lack of building up to edify are all demonstrations of fruit that is not Godly wisdom.

Blessed is the man who walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly nor sitteth in the seat of the unrighteous or sit in the seat of mockers. Psalms 1:1 Next time you listen to Glen Beck see if you note mockery or scorn in his voice and tell me what positive truth you came away with that breeds hope.

by: liberalinlove

04-20-2010 @ 1:47am

How many people have signed the social justice petition?

by: dlowen

04-20-2010 @ 7:49pm

I don't remember the Word of God saying "Thou shalt... and if it doesn't work then try whatever seems good to you." The same argument is made about turning the other cheek and loving your enemies -- it's just not practical in the world today. God doesn't call us to do what's practical but only His will. Each one of us giving "out of his own earned goods," is merely charity. Charity is needed, but doesn't giving someone the opportunity to do something for herself mean much more? That requires justice. Even in the OT both are required, "He has told you, O man, what is good;And what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, to love kindness,And to walk humbly with your God."

by: Ngchen

04-20-2010 @ 7:22pm

Jesusistheway wrote:I am a social justice Christian; I believe in the sanctity of life from conception of life until death; I will work for social justice for the poor and for the unborn. I will also fight against the coarsening of society; I will pledge to oppose anyone who causes any child to stumble or be hindered from coming to Jesus. In short, I am a social justice Christian who believes that sins are not just structural, but also personal.

Now BlueDeacon replied:
We already have people -- too many, in my view -- who would support that agenda for the sake of cultural authority. We Christians, on the other hand, are supposed to be renegade, subversive outsiders infiltrating the world for Him.

What is wrong with Jesusistheway's agenda? After all, he did note that "I will work for social justice for the poor... I will also fight against the coarsening of society..." Such coarsening can certainly include the "me, me, and only me" mentality that the far right espouses as a virtue. Ultimately, society is the sum of its individual members. Fix the members, and you fix society. (Of course, certain societal problems ARE structural, and fixing those is quite important too.)

by: wotanuo

04-20-2010 @ 9:18pm

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by: wotanuo

04-20-2010 @ 9:16pm

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by: Jesusistheway

04-20-2010 @ 3:10am

How about Sojourners leading a petition that states: I am a social justice Christian; I believe in the sanctity of life from conception of life until death; I will work for social justice for the poor and for the unborn. I will also fight against the coarsening of society; I will pledge to oppose anyone who causes any child to stumble or be hindered from coming to Jesus. In short, I am a social justice Christian who believes that sins are not just structural, but also personal.

by: BlueDeacon

04-20-2010 @ 1:03pm

We already have people -- too many, in my view -- who would support that agenda for the sake of cultural authority. We Christians, on the other hand, are supposed to be renegade, subversive outsiders infiltrating the world for Him.

by: jkc1945

04-20-2010 @ 1:02pm

Susan Brookes Thistlethwaite: ""According to the Acts of the Apostles in the New Testament, however, to follow the example of the apostles means everybody pool their money and take care of the poor."
Ms Thistlethwaite is right; that is what the early church tried. What she fails to mention is - - - it didn't work!! It was quickly abandoned as a "tenet of the gospel" when it was discovered that people, even saved people, don't "share' their things well, when driven to do it by some 'spiritual mandate.'
What does work is individual Christians, acting through the venue of the church, the Body of Christ, giving as they are called, to those who need. The government cannot do it very well. It never could. It takes a dollar of 'giving,' pays the salaries of the folks who have to handle it and the paperwork that goes with it, and then distributed the remaining 20c to 'those who they think need it.'

I don;t know, and don't much care, how "social justice" is defined. But it is best carried out when one human gives, out of his earned goods and / or services, to another human with an immediate need. No administrative costs, and he knows exactly where every penny went.

by: liberalinlove

04-20-2010 @ 10:17pm

The church was eventually busy being fed to the lions. That meant moving underground or moving to another address. Again this form of "social" ism, to hold all things in common was about survival and a byproduct in the belief in God's imminent return to establish an earthly kingdom.

I'm sure as needed this example has been repeated and revived over the centuries. Examples in the bible aren't to become new rules but are revelatory of the nature and story of God's redeeming Love. As these new converts realized the nature of God's transforming love, they immediately did what was necessary and expedient to take care of the needs at hand. That is social justice with integrity. Taking care of needs at hand with love.

by: jkc1945

04-20-2010 @ 10:07pm

But perhaps you miss my point. Which is - - - it really did not work!! And the early church realized that, and quit the practice of "communality" of goods and resources. You know the story, I am sure. But to use that story, as Ms. Thistlewhaite did, to attempt to justify some kind of "unto each according to his need. . ." quasi-Marxist living, is reaching where the Acts of the Apostles does not allow us to reach. The simple fact is - - the church tried it, it seemed good to them, but it did not work!

by: Jesusistheway

04-20-2010 @ 9:55pm

thank you. You say it much better than I can.

by: BlueDeacon

04-21-2010 @ 4:15am

What's wrong with Jesusistheway's agenda? Basically, it depends on scapegoating -- the thinking that "if we get rid of X, God will bless us." In the long run, doing that absolves us of responsibility for our own shortcomings and actually reduces faith to an "us-against-them" ideology when every Christian should understand that he/she was once one of "them." People don't see the difference that Christ makes when we go on such crusades.

by: letjusticerolldown

04-20-2010 @ 4:30pm

I started on Glenn Beck's side. Because Jim's original response twisted Beck's critique of the term.

But Beck's explicit lying about Jim Wallis, etc.; along with the reactions of Beck listeners convinced me Beck needed to be confronted.

But the more groups climb on board a "I'm a social justice Christian" message--I'm leaving. It starts to feel like, look like, walk like, talk like and act like a group of people with a political agenda who are attempting to leverage a public conversation for asserting power. Which if I think about it, was the basic critique Beck was asserting.

I think a few too many folks have their fingers gripped around a term a little too tightly for my comfort.

I'm a Jesus follower.

I will walk the journey with any social justice Christian intent on seeking Jesus.

I will walk the journey with any Beck listener intent on seeking Jesus

by: letjusticerolldown

04-20-2010 @ 4:24pm

If you wish to delineate the two statements then please complete your thought as to whether the gospel that is social imperative is only social imperative?

I infer your meaning to be that it is strictly social imperative; for if it was something more that included social imperative you could speak of it as Good News with implications for human relationships. But then you would be saying what Al Mohler said.

by: jerrygates

04-21-2010 @ 9:09am

At times debates seem to be about winning a point, scoring against and enemy or just plain being right and proving the other wrong. This can be divisive, but debates are about finding truth, are they not? Winning is second fiddle to the truth of the Gospels, in my mind.

Christians are what they are through study, sharing and the works of the Holy Spirit in their lives,right? We are who we are because of Jesus teachings, as they are presented in the Bible's New Testament.

Helping those in need has always been a tenet of Christian faith and a good one. Every person can give their compassion, love, their mind, heart and soul to another and help build that persons self esteem, courage and self love by being considerate, kind and gentle, but also by teaching that once healed,"swept and cleaned of demons', we all must fight our own fights with Jesus to keep this state of spiritual prosperity going for God's kingdom, which we are.

In casting out demons, Christ was known to say, seven more come back and see the soul cleansed and can leave the person in a worse state than before they were healed. Seeing that the term Demon can be a metaphor for errant thinking and behaviors, we need to understand that we are responsible, when helped by a brother or sister's love and grace, to study, stay approved and grow in the spirit and in the flesh to be able to pass on the gift of healing to others, as we ought.

Dont argue with Christians about social justice just to define it or win some esoteric talking point, be social justice in your own life, removing that board from your eye so that you are able to remove the speck from sister or brothers eye, This is social justice that begins in our own lives and grows as the light of the world.

The light of the soul is the eye, having no part dark therein we are filled with light through and through to be givers of social justice.

Beck is a libertarian, right, he seeks liberty for the rich and is confused about the "take all that you have and give to the poor, "axiom of Christ" which is a demand from the master to servants and there choice as to follow or not.

by: liberalinlove

04-20-2010 @ 5:25pm

I believe new testament sharing had in part to do with persecution of the church and the belief that the Lord was returning soon. Under severe persecution, I have no doubt that many Christians today, as often happens in other countries, would respond in like manner. When all rights are stripped, citizens holding all things in common is necessary for survival of the individual as well as the whole.

Kingdom building means giving up personal rights and listening to the voice of Jesus to pursue our callings. That takes more faith and obedience when choice is involved.

My personal feeling is this passage has little to do with social justice as it did with survival.

by: liberalinlove

04-20-2010 @ 5:17pm

letjusticerolldown,

letting our collective voices be heard, doesn't mean that we have signed on to a singular tenet of that voice.

For me, stating I'm a social justice Christian just means, I'm acknowledging that Jesus was too. For me, a Christian by definition is one who accepts and follows the teachings of the Christ and tries to live by his example.

I know a large number of people who call themselves Christians and are also Glen Beck fans. For some reason they can't give me examples of how Beck's proclamations tie into the gospel. In fact I've gotten lots of blank stares, like what does that have to do with it.

As Paul clearly states in Galations, false Jesuses abound. It takes a steadfast heart and a commitment to truth to seek out the Jesus of the cross.

Not everyone that claims him knows him. But one way the bible says we are known is by our love one for another. I left my old crowd because I failed to see love. Not the mushy kind of sloppy love that one feels for another, but the cross kind of love that one offers another.

The backbiting rhetoric, the sneering, the confrontational attitudes, the delight in someone else's failures, the distortion of information that is used to slander and accuse and the lack of building up to edify are all demonstrations of fruit that is not Godly wisdom.

Blessed is the man who walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly nor sitteth in the seat of the unrighteous or sit in the seat of mockers. Psalms 1:1 Next time you listen to Glen Beck see if you note mockery or scorn in his voice and tell me what positive truth you came away with that breeds hope.

by: dlowen

04-20-2010 @ 7:49pm

I don't remember the Word of God saying "Thou shalt... and if it doesn't work then try whatever seems good to you." The same argument is made about turning the other cheek and loving your enemies -- it's just not practical in the world today. God doesn't call us to do what's practical but only His will. Each one of us giving "out of his own earned goods," is merely charity. Charity is needed, but doesn't giving someone the opportunity to do something for herself mean much more? That requires justice. Even in the OT both are required, "He has told you, O man, what is good;And what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, to love kindness,And to walk humbly with your God."

by: Ngchen

04-20-2010 @ 7:22pm

Jesusistheway wrote:I am a social justice Christian; I believe in the sanctity of life from conception of life until death; I will work for social justice for the poor and for the unborn. I will also fight against the coarsening of society; I will pledge to oppose anyone who causes any child to stumble or be hindered from coming to Jesus. In short, I am a social justice Christian who believes that sins are not just structural, but also personal.

Now BlueDeacon replied:
We already have people -- too many, in my view -- who would support that agenda for the sake of cultural authority. We Christians, on the other hand, are supposed to be renegade, subversive outsiders infiltrating the world for Him.

What is wrong with Jesusistheway's agenda? After all, he did note that "I will work for social justice for the poor... I will also fight against the coarsening of society..." Such coarsening can certainly include the "me, me, and only me" mentality that the far right espouses as a virtue. Ultimately, society is the sum of its individual members. Fix the members, and you fix society. (Of course, certain societal problems ARE structural, and fixing those is quite important too.)

by: wotanuo

04-20-2010 @ 9:18pm

which mbt do you like the most? Mbt shoes has MBT LAMI,MBT CHAPA,MBT KAYA,MBT Changa are new style ,welcome to see.

by: wotanuo

04-20-2010 @ 9:16pm

Search for MBT ?
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by: liberalinlove

04-20-2010 @ 10:17pm

The church was eventually busy being fed to the lions. That meant moving underground or moving to another address. Again this form of "social" ism, to hold all things in common was about survival and a byproduct in the belief in God's imminent return to establish an earthly kingdom.

I'm sure as needed this example has been repeated and revived over the centuries. Examples in the bible aren't to become new rules but are revelatory of the nature and story of God's redeeming Love. As these new converts realized the nature of God's transforming love, they immediately did what was necessary and expedient to take care of the needs at hand. That is social justice with integrity. Taking care of needs at hand with love.

by: jkc1945

04-20-2010 @ 10:07pm

But perhaps you miss my point. Which is - - - it really did not work!! And the early church realized that, and quit the practice of "communality" of goods and resources. You know the story, I am sure. But to use that story, as Ms. Thistlewhaite did, to attempt to justify some kind of "unto each according to his need. . ." quasi-Marxist living, is reaching where the Acts of the Apostles does not allow us to reach. The simple fact is - - the church tried it, it seemed good to them, but it did not work!

by: Jesusistheway

04-20-2010 @ 9:55pm

thank you. You say it much better than I can.

by: BlueDeacon

04-21-2010 @ 4:15am

What's wrong with Jesusistheway's agenda? Basically, it depends on scapegoating -- the thinking that "if we get rid of X, God will bless us." In the long run, doing that absolves us of responsibility for our own shortcomings and actually reduces faith to an "us-against-them" ideology when every Christian should understand that he/she was once one of "them." People don't see the difference that Christ makes when we go on such crusades.

by: jerrygates

04-21-2010 @ 9:09am

At times debates seem to be about winning a point, scoring against and enemy or just plain being right and proving the other wrong. This can be divisive, but debates are about finding truth, are they not? Winning is second fiddle to the truth of the Gospels, in my mind.

Christians are what they are through study, sharing and the works of the Holy Spirit in their lives,right? We are who we are because of Jesus teachings, as they are presented in the Bible's New Testament.

Helping those in need has always been a tenet of Christian faith and a good one. Every person can give their compassion, love, their mind, heart and soul to another and help build that persons self esteem, courage and self love by being considerate, kind and gentle, but also by teaching that once healed,"swept and cleaned of demons', we all must fight our own fights with Jesus to keep this state of spiritual prosperity going for God's kingdom, which we are.

In casting out demons, Christ was known to say, seven more come back and see the soul cleansed and can leave the person in a worse state than before they were healed. Seeing that the term Demon can be a metaphor for errant thinking and behaviors, we need to understand that we are responsible, when helped by a brother or sister's love and grace, to study, stay approved and grow in the spirit and in the flesh to be able to pass on the gift of healing to others, as we ought.

Dont argue with Christians about social justice just to define it or win some esoteric talking point, be social justice in your own life, removing that board from your eye so that you are able to remove the speck from sister or brothers eye, This is social justice that begins in our own lives and grows as the light of the world.

The light of the soul is the eye, having no part dark therein we are filled with light through and through to be givers of social justice.

Beck is a libertarian, right, he seeks liberty for the rich and is confused about the "take all that you have and give to the poor, "axiom of Christ" which is a demand from the master to servants and there choice as to follow or not.

by: xfree9

04-19-2010 @ 9:16pm

Thanks for posting the various responses. I think this helps add to the civil dialogue that needs to take place.

by: ckgmailOTscholar

04-19-2010 @ 9:36pm

Al Mohler, "The gospel . . .does have social implications." The gospel is a social imperative!

by: ajaske

04-22-2010 @ 7:41pm

Well, all I can say is that whatever the opinion expressed here, it is a lot better espoused than on Politics Daily!

by: liberalinlove

04-20-2010 @ 1:47am

How many people have signed the social justice petition?

by: uberVU - social comments

04-20-2010 @ 1:48am

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This post was mentioned on Twitter by newnamepictures: "I'm a social justice Chrisitan" PSA is featured on the @Sojourners blog today! http://bit.ly/cIYeLo...

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by: xfree9

04-19-2010 @ 9:16pm

Thanks for posting the various responses. I think this helps add to the civil dialogue that needs to take place.

by: xfree9

04-19-2010 @ 9:16pm

Thanks for posting the various responses. I think this helps add to the civil dialogue that needs to take place.

by: ckgmailOTscholar

04-19-2010 @ 9:36pm

Al Mohler, "The gospel . . .does have social implications." The gospel is a social imperative!

by: ckgmailOTscholar

04-19-2010 @ 9:36pm

Al Mohler, "The gospel . . .does have social implications." The gospel is a social imperative!

by: liberalinlove

04-20-2010 @ 1:47am

How many people have signed the social justice petition?

by: liberalinlove

04-20-2010 @ 1:47am

How many people have signed the social justice petition?

by: uberVU - social comments

04-20-2010 @ 1:48am

Social comments and analytics for this post...

This post was mentioned on Twitter by newnamepictures: "I'm a social justice Chrisitan" PSA is featured on the @Sojourners blog today! http://bit.ly/cIYeLo...

by: Jesusistheway

04-20-2010 @ 3:10am

How about Sojourners leading a petition that states: I am a social justice Christian; I believe in the sanctity of life from conception of life until death; I will work for social justice for the poor and for the unborn. I will also fight against the coarsening of society; I will pledge to oppose anyone who causes any child to stumble or be hindered from coming to Jesus. In short, I am a social justice Christian who believes that sins are not just structural, but also personal.

by: Jesusistheway

04-20-2010 @ 3:10am

How about Sojourners leading a petition that states: I am a social justice Christian; I believe in the sanctity of life from conception of life until death; I will work for social justice for the poor and for the unborn. I will also fight against the coarsening of society; I will pledge to oppose anyone who causes any child to stumble or be hindered from coming to Jesus. In short, I am a social justice Christian who believes that sins are not just structural, but also personal.

by: jkc1945

04-20-2010 @ 1:02pm

Susan Brookes Thistlethwaite: ""According to the Acts of the Apostles in the New Testament, however, to follow the example of the apostles means everybody pool their money and take care of the poor."
Ms Thistlethwaite is right; that is what the early church tried. What she fails to mention is - - - it didn't work!! It was quickly abandoned as a "tenet of the gospel" when it was discovered that people, even saved people, don't "share' their things well, when driven to do it by some 'spiritual mandate.'
What does work is individual Christians, acting through the venue of the church, the Body of Christ, giving as they are called, to those who need. The government cannot do it very well. It never could. It takes a dollar of 'giving,' pays the salaries of the folks who have to handle it and the paperwork that goes with it, and then distributed the remaining 20c to 'those who they think need it.'

I don;t know, and don't much care, how "social justice" is defined. But it is best carried out when one human gives, out of his earned goods and / or services, to another human with an immediate need. No administrative costs, and he knows exactly where every penny went.

by: jkc1945

04-20-2010 @ 1:02pm

Susan Brookes Thistlethwaite: ""According to the Acts of the Apostles in the New Testament, however, to follow the example of the apostles means everybody pool their money and take care of the poor."
Ms Thistlethwaite is right; that is what the early church tried. What she fails to mention is - - - it didn't work!! It was quickly abandoned as a "tenet of the gospel" when it was discovered that people, even saved people, don't "share' their things well, when driven to do it by some 'spiritual mandate.'
What does work is individual Christians, acting through the venue of the church, the Body of Christ, giving as they are called, to those who need. The government cannot do it very well. It never could. It takes a dollar of 'giving,' pays the salaries of the folks who have to handle it and the paperwork that goes with it, and then distributed the remaining 20c to 'those who they think need it.'

I don;t know, and don't much care, how "social justice" is defined. But it is best carried out when one human gives, out of his earned goods and / or services, to another human with an immediate need. No administrative costs, and he knows exactly where every penny went.

by: BlueDeacon

04-20-2010 @ 1:03pm

We already have people -- too many, in my view -- who would support that agenda for the sake of cultural authority. We Christians, on the other hand, are supposed to be renegade, subversive outsiders infiltrating the world for Him.

by: BlueDeacon

04-20-2010 @ 1:03pm

We already have people -- too many, in my view -- who would support that agenda for the sake of cultural authority. We Christians, on the other hand, are supposed to be renegade, subversive outsiders infiltrating the world for Him.

by: letjusticerolldown

04-20-2010 @ 4:24pm

If you wish to delineate the two statements then please complete your thought as to whether the gospel that is social imperative is only social imperative?

I infer your meaning to be that it is strictly social imperative; for if it was something more that included social imperative you could speak of it as Good News with implications for human relationships. But then you would be saying what Al Mohler said.

by: letjusticerolldown

04-20-2010 @ 4:24pm

If you wish to delineate the two statements then please complete your thought as to whether the gospel that is social imperative is only social imperative?

I infer your meaning to be that it is strictly social imperative; for if it was something more that included social imperative you could speak of it as Good News with implications for human relationships. But then you would be saying what Al Mohler said.

by: letjusticerolldown

04-20-2010 @ 4:30pm

I started on Glenn Beck's side. Because Jim's original response twisted Beck's critique of the term.

But Beck's explicit lying about Jim Wallis, etc.; along with the reactions of Beck listeners convinced me Beck needed to be confronted.

But the more groups climb on board a "I'm a social justice Christian" message--I'm leaving. It starts to feel like, look like, walk like, talk like and act like a group of people with a political agenda who are attempting to leverage a public conversation for asserting power. Which if I think about it, was the basic critique Beck was asserting.

I think a few too many folks have their fingers gripped around a term a little too tightly for my comfort.

I'm a Jesus follower.

I will walk the journey with any social justice Christian intent on seeking Jesus.

I will walk the journey with any Beck listener intent on seeking Jesus

by: letjusticerolldown

04-20-2010 @ 4:30pm

I started on Glenn Beck's side. Because Jim's original response twisted Beck's critique of the term.

But Beck's explicit lying about Jim Wallis, etc.; along with the reactions of Beck listeners convinced me Beck needed to be confronted.

But the more groups climb on board a "I'm a social justice Christian" message--I'm leaving. It starts to feel like, look like, walk like, talk like and act like a group of people with a political agenda who are attempting to leverage a public conversation for asserting power. Which if I think about it, was the basic critique Beck was asserting.

I think a few too many folks have their fingers gripped around a term a little too tightly for my comfort.

I'm a Jesus follower.

I will walk the journey with any social justice Christian intent on seeking Jesus.

I will walk the journey with any Beck listener intent on seeking Jesus

by: liberalinlove

04-20-2010 @ 5:17pm

letjusticerolldown,

letting our collective voices be heard, doesn't mean that we have signed on to a singular tenet of that voice.

For me, stating I'm a social justice Christian just means, I'm acknowledging that Jesus was too. For me, a Christian by definition is one who accepts and follows the teachings of the Christ and tries to live by his example.

I know a large number of people who call themselves Christians and are also Glen Beck fans. For some reason they can't give me examples of how Beck's proclamations tie into the gospel. In fact I've gotten lots of blank stares, like what does that have to do with it.

As Paul clearly states in Galations, false Jesuses abound. It takes a steadfast heart and a commitment to truth to seek out the Jesus of the cross.

Not everyone that claims him knows him. But one way the bible says we are known is by our love one for another. I left my old crowd because I failed to see love. Not the mushy kind of sloppy love that one feels for another, but the cross kind of love that one offers another.

The backbiting rhetoric, the sneering, the confrontational attitudes, the delight in someone else's failures, the distortion of information that is used to slander and accuse and the lack of building up to edify are all demonstrations of fruit that is not Godly wisdom.

Blessed is the man who walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly nor sitteth in the seat of the unrighteous or sit in the seat of mockers. Psalms 1:1 Next time you listen to Glen Beck see if you note mockery or scorn in his voice and tell me what positive truth you came away with that breeds hope.

by: liberalinlove

04-20-2010 @ 5:17pm

letjusticerolldown,

letting our collective voices be heard, doesn't mean that we have signed on to a singular tenet of that voice.

For me, stating I'm a social justice Christian just means, I'm acknowledging that Jesus was too. For me, a Christian by definition is one who accepts and follows the teachings of the Christ and tries to live by his example.

I know a large number of people who call themselves Christians and are also Glen Beck fans. For some reason they can't give me examples of how Beck's proclamations tie into the gospel. In fact I've gotten lots of blank stares, like what does that have to do with it.

As Paul clearly states in Galations, false Jesuses abound. It takes a steadfast heart and a commitment to truth to seek out the Jesus of the cross.

Not everyone that claims him knows him. But one way the bible says we are known is by our love one for another. I left my old crowd because I failed to see love. Not the mushy kind of sloppy love that one feels for another, but the cross kind of love that one offers another.

The backbiting rhetoric, the sneering, the confrontational attitudes, the delight in someone else's failures, the distortion of information that is used to slander and accuse and the lack of building up to edify are all demonstrations of fruit that is not Godly wisdom.

Blessed is the man who walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly nor sitteth in the seat of the unrighteous or sit in the seat of mockers. Psalms 1:1 Next time you listen to Glen Beck see if you note mockery or scorn in his voice and tell me what positive truth you came away with that breeds hope.

by: liberalinlove

04-20-2010 @ 5:25pm

I believe new testament sharing had in part to do with persecution of the church and the belief that the Lord was returning soon. Under severe persecution, I have no doubt that many Christians today, as often happens in other countries, would respond in like manner. When all rights are stripped, citizens holding all things in common is necessary for survival of the individual as well as the whole.

Kingdom building means giving up personal rights and listening to the voice of Jesus to pursue our callings. That takes more faith and obedience when choice is involved.

My personal feeling is this passage has little to do with social justice as it did with survival.

by: liberalinlove

04-20-2010 @ 5:25pm

I believe new testament sharing had in part to do with persecution of the church and the belief that the Lord was returning soon. Under severe persecution, I have no doubt that many Christians today, as often happens in other countries, would respond in like manner. When all rights are stripped, citizens holding all things in common is necessary for survival of the individual as well as the whole.

Kingdom building means giving up personal rights and listening to the voice of Jesus to pursue our callings. That takes more faith and obedience when choice is involved.

My personal feeling is this passage has little to do with social justice as it did with survival.

by: Ngchen

04-20-2010 @ 7:22pm

Jesusistheway wrote:I am a social justice Christian; I believe in the sanctity of life from conception of life until death; I will work for social justice for the poor and for the unborn. I will also fight against the coarsening of society; I will pledge to oppose anyone who causes any child to stumble or be hindered from coming to Jesus. In short, I am a social justice Christian who believes that sins are not just structural, but also personal.

Now BlueDeacon replied:
We already have people -- too many, in my view -- who would support that agenda for the sake of cultural authority. We Christians, on the other hand, are supposed to be renegade, subversive outsiders infiltrating the world for Him.

What is wrong with Jesusistheway's agenda? After all, he did note that "I will work for social justice for the poor... I will also fight against the coarsening of society..." Such coarsening can certainly include the "me, me, and only me" mentality that the far right espouses as a virtue. Ultimately, society is the sum of its individual members. Fix the members, and you fix society. (Of course, certain societal problems ARE structural, and fixing those is quite important too.)

by: Ngchen

04-20-2010 @ 7:22pm

Jesusistheway wrote:I am a social justice Christian; I believe in the sanctity of life from conception of life until death; I will work for social justice for the poor and for the unborn. I will also fight against the coarsening of society; I will pledge to oppose anyone who causes any child to stumble or be hindered from coming to Jesus. In short, I am a social justice Christian who believes that sins are not just structural, but also personal.

Now BlueDeacon replied:
We already have people -- too many, in my view -- who would support that agenda for the sake of cultural authority. We Christians, on the other hand, are supposed to be renegade, subversive outsiders infiltrating the world for Him.

What is wrong with Jesusistheway's agenda? After all, he did note that "I will work for social justice for the poor... I will also fight against the coarsening of society..." Such coarsening can certainly include the "me, me, and only me" mentality that the far right espouses as a virtue. Ultimately, society is the sum of its individual members. Fix the members, and you fix society. (Of course, certain societal problems ARE structural, and fixing those is quite important too.)

by: dlowen

04-20-2010 @ 7:49pm

I don't remember the Word of God saying "Thou shalt... and if it doesn't work then try whatever seems good to you." The same argument is made about turning the other cheek and loving your enemies -- it's just not practical in the world today. God doesn't call us to do what's practical but only His will. Each one of us giving "out of his own earned goods," is merely charity. Charity is needed, but doesn't giving someone the opportunity to do something for herself mean much more? That requires justice. Even in the OT both are required, "He has told you, O man, what is good;And what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, to love kindness,And to walk humbly with your God."

by: dlowen

04-20-2010 @ 7:49pm

I don't remember the Word of God saying "Thou shalt... and if it doesn't work then try whatever seems good to you." The same argument is made about turning the other cheek and loving your enemies -- it's just not practical in the world today. God doesn't call us to do what's practical but only His will. Each one of us giving "out of his own earned goods," is merely charity. Charity is needed, but doesn't giving someone the opportunity to do something for herself mean much more? That requires justice. Even in the OT both are required, "He has told you, O man, what is good;And what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, to love kindness,And to walk humbly with your God."

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by: Jesusistheway

04-20-2010 @ 9:55pm

thank you. You say it much better than I can.

by: Jesusistheway

04-20-2010 @ 9:55pm

thank you. You say it much better than I can.

by: jkc1945

04-20-2010 @ 10:07pm

But perhaps you miss my point. Which is - - - it really did not work!! And the early church realized that, and quit the practice of "communality" of goods and resources. You know the story, I am sure. But to use that story, as Ms. Thistlewhaite did, to attempt to justify some kind of "unto each according to his need. . ." quasi-Marxist living, is reaching where the Acts of the Apostles does not allow us to reach. The simple fact is - - the church tried it, it seemed good to them, but it did not work!

by: jkc1945

04-20-2010 @ 10:07pm

But perhaps you miss my point. Which is - - - it really did not work!! And the early church realized that, and quit the practice of "communality" of goods and resources. You know the story, I am sure. But to use that story, as Ms. Thistlewhaite did, to attempt to justify some kind of "unto each according to his need. . ." quasi-Marxist living, is reaching where the Acts of the Apostles does not allow us to reach. The simple fact is - - the church tried it, it seemed good to them, but it did not work!

by: liberalinlove

04-20-2010 @ 10:17pm

The church was eventually busy being fed to the lions. That meant moving underground or moving to another address. Again this form of "social" ism, to hold all things in common was about survival and a byproduct in the belief in God's imminent return to establish an earthly kingdom.

I'm sure as needed this example has been repeated and revived over the centuries. Examples in the bible aren't to become new rules but are revelatory of the nature and story of God's redeeming Love. As these new converts realized the nature of God's transforming love, they immediately did what was necessary and expedient to take care of the needs at hand. That is social justice with integrity. Taking care of needs at hand with love.

by: liberalinlove

04-20-2010 @ 10:17pm

The church was eventually busy being fed to the lions. That meant moving underground or moving to another address. Again this form of "social" ism, to hold all things in common was about survival and a byproduct in the belief in God's imminent return to establish an earthly kingdom.

I'm sure as needed this example has been repeated and revived over the centuries. Examples in the bible aren't to become new rules but are revelatory of the nature and story of God's redeeming Love. As these new converts realized the nature of God's transforming love, they immediately did what was necessary and expedient to take care of the needs at hand. That is social justice with integrity. Taking care of needs at hand with love.

by: BlueDeacon

04-21-2010 @ 4:15am

What's wrong with Jesusistheway's agenda? Basically, it depends on scapegoating -- the thinking that "if we get rid of X, God will bless us." In the long run, doing that absolves us of responsibility for our own shortcomings and actually reduces faith to an "us-against-them" ideology when every Christian should understand that he/she was once one of "them." People don't see the difference that Christ makes when we go on such crusades.

by: BlueDeacon

04-21-2010 @ 4:15am

What's wrong with Jesusistheway's agenda? Basically, it depends on scapegoating -- the thinking that "if we get rid of X, God will bless us." In the long run, doing that absolves us of responsibility for our own shortcomings and actually reduces faith to an "us-against-them" ideology when every Christian should understand that he/she was once one of "them." People don't see the difference that Christ makes when we go on such crusades.

by: jerrygates

04-21-2010 @ 9:09am

At times debates seem to be about winning a point, scoring against and enemy or just plain being right and proving the other wrong. This can be divisive, but debates are about finding truth, are they not? Winning is second fiddle to the truth of the Gospels, in my mind.

Christians are what they are through study, sharing and the works of the Holy Spirit in their lives,right? We are who we are because of Jesus teachings, as they are presented in the Bible's New Testament.

Helping those in need has always been a tenet of Christian faith and a good one. Every person can give their compassion, love, their mind, heart and soul to another and help build that persons self esteem, courage and self love by being considerate, kind and gentle, but also by teaching that once healed,"swept and cleaned of demons', we all must fight our own fights with Jesus to keep this state of spiritual prosperity going for God's kingdom, which we are.

In casting out demons, Christ was known to say, seven more come back and see the soul cleansed and can leave the person in a worse state than before they were healed. Seeing that the term Demon can be a metaphor for errant thinking and behaviors, we need to understand that we are responsible, when helped by a brother or sister's love and grace, to study, stay approved and grow in the spirit and in the flesh to be able to pass on the gift of healing to others, as we ought.

Dont argue with Christians about social justice just to define it or win some esoteric talking point, be social justice in your own life, removing that board from your eye so that you are able to remove the speck from sister or brothers eye, This is social justice that begins in our own lives and grows as the light of the world.

The light of the soul is the eye, having no part dark therein we are filled with light through and through to be givers of social justice.

Beck is a libertarian, right, he seeks liberty for the rich and is confused about the "take all that you have and give to the poor, "axiom of Christ" which is a demand from the master to servants and there choice as to follow or not.

by: jerrygates

04-21-2010 @ 9:09am

At times debates seem to be about winning a point, scoring against and enemy or just plain being right and proving the other wrong. This can be divisive, but debates are about finding truth, are they not? Winning is second fiddle to the truth of the Gospels, in my mind.

Christians are what they are through study, sharing and the works of the Holy Spirit in their lives,right? We are who we are because of Jesus teachings, as they are presented in the Bible's New Testament.

Helping those in need has always been a tenet of Christian faith and a good one. Every person can give their compassion, love, their mind, heart and soul to another and help build that persons self esteem, courage and self love by being considerate, kind and gentle, but also by teaching that once healed,"swept and cleaned of demons', we all must fight our own fights with Jesus to keep this state of spiritual prosperity going for God's kingdom, which we are.

In casting out demons, Christ was known to say, seven more come back and see the soul cleansed and can leave the person in a worse state than before they were healed. Seeing that the term Demon can be a metaphor for errant thinking and behaviors, we need to understand that we are responsible, when helped by a brother or sister's love and grace, to study, stay approved and grow in the spirit and in the flesh to be able to pass on the gift of healing to others, as we ought.

Dont argue with Christians about social justice just to define it or win some esoteric talking point, be social justice in your own life, removing that board from your eye so that you are able to remove the speck from sister or brothers eye, This is social justice that begins in our own lives and grows as the light of the world.

The light of the soul is the eye, having no part dark therein we are filled with light through and through to be givers of social justice.

Beck is a libertarian, right, he seeks liberty for the rich and is confused about the "take all that you have and give to the poor, "axiom of Christ" which is a demand from the master to servants and there choice as to follow or not.

by: ajaske

04-22-2010 @ 7:41pm

Well, all I can say is that whatever the opinion expressed here, it is a lot better espoused than on Politics Daily!

by: ajaske

04-22-2010 @ 7:41pm

Well, all I can say is that whatever the opinion expressed here, it is a lot better espoused than on Politics Daily!