Cruise Ships: Dark Secrets Below Deck

Posters on here love throw the "oppressed" word around. Nobody was oppressed. It's called a job. If you don't like the job you quit and find another one. If you can't find another job, you have to learn a new skill that makes someone want to hire you.

And what do you do for a living, pc?

Ahhhh...the old "let them eat cake" argument - very Christian :)!

Exactly how is someone supposed to look for another job when they haven't had a day off in a year? Exactly how is someone supposed to learn a new skill without money to pay for further education?

It all seems so simple to you - unfortunately, simple is rarely reality.

Okay, we've got one person who is in a tough position. Is there any reason to think that this kind of thing is common? If not, then we don't have a public policy problem.

Second, what is this ship's registry? Whose law applies here? We can't assume that this can be fixed by Congress.

We are told that these wages are "meager". Could you please provide actual amounts? Bear in mind that in much of the world an hourly wage of $5 or $6 would be considered pretty good, especially for unskilled labor.

No, reality is rarely simple, but that cuts both ways. At a bare minimum we'd need more details before declaring any of this "oppressive".

LV

Where did Jessica maintain that Congress can fix this problem? Or talk about law, or ship's registry?

I didn't read this as a "government solutions" piece. I read it more as an awareness of the inequities in the cruise industry piece. I don't believe people who support the cruise industry through purchase of their product think very much about all the people behind the scenes who make the cruise luxurious for the passengers, or under what conditions those people work. Perhaps, as Christians, we ought to think about those people?

It's kind of strange that you have brought up public policy, government, and ship's registry issues here, when the author clearly didn't. Usually you're arguing against government involvement, and maintaining a strict separation between Christian actions and government actions. Yet, here you are, in a conversation about Christian action, injecting government into the mix.

Another sanctimonious post using American economics as a base for a claim of injustice. I have had the opportunity of spending non-tourist time in places like the Philippines and Kenya where wages are abysmal. These low pay jobs on the ships with long hours and less than American wages are highly sought after by the citizens of poorer countries where jobs are scarce, pay even worse, and abuse is frequently rampant. If these jobs were as bad as you claim there wouldn't be a line at hiring time.

Another sanctimonious post using American economics as a base for a claim of injustice. I have had the opportunity of spending non-tourist time in places like the Philippines and Kenya where wages are abysmal. These low pay jobs on the ships with long hours and less than American wages are highly sought after by the citizens of poorer countries where jobs are scarce, pay even worse, and abuse is frequently rampant. If these jobs were as bad as you claim there wouldn't be a line at hiring time.

That's kind of the point. We understand what "justice" is; however, desperate people because of their condition are ripe for exploitation. Answer this question: Would these kind of things be acceptable if you ran the company in question?

Is it exploitation if the alternative is a job that pays even less or no job at all? (Remember they are also getting meals and board) Any economy is build on the "exploitation" of labor (or any other resource) of earlier generations.

Is it exploitation if the alternative is a job that pays even less or no job at all? (Remember they are also getting meals and board) Any economy is build on the "exploitation" of labor (or any other resource) of earlier generations.

Ok, let's just skip so-called American economics and consider it in the light of basic humanity. What is the justification to "hold" another human being for a year - a YEAR - without a single day off, and to arbitrarily extend that time simply because the employer has neglected to locate someone else to take that person's place yet?

Are you telling me that doesn't sound like commodifying a human being, and doesn't sound like an act of oppression to you? Are you telling me that ISN'T exploitation?

It sure appears to be exploitation to me!

Many jobs have demanding requirements that are explained upfront, i.e. I have a horse farm, my wife and/or I must feed, muck, nurse, etc daily. We get 1 week off together a year and make very little money from it (btw we are retired and don't need to do this). An Asian rice farmers family works dawn to dark every day of the year to sustain themselves. Many Kenyan's make $40/mo for long days of manual labor. Until you live there and see it you can not understand the privilege you have to sit in comfort and cast stones at people who are creating job and eventually wealth in these poor countries.

Many jobs have demanding requirements that are explained upfront, i.e. I have a horse farm, my wife and/or I must feed, muck, nurse, etc daily. We get 1 week off together a year and make very little money from it (btw we are retired and don't need to do this). An Asian rice farmers family works dawn to dark every day of the year to sustain themselves. Many Kenyan's make $40/mo for long days of manual labor. Until you live there and see it you can not understand the privilege you have to sit in comfort and cast stones at people who are creating job and eventually wealth in these poor countries.

That's YOUR farm, and you are CHOOSING that life. That's your NEIGHBOR's farm, and you neighbor and family have CHOSEN that life. Both of you reap all the benefits, because you are the owners.

The situation is a little different for the person who has nothing but the wages of the job who is at the mercy of the owner.

Just what wealth is being created in these countries, and exactly who is it being created for?

It's one thing when one generation has to sacrifice. It's another entirely when it goes for multiple generations -- in some countries that actually leads to political unrest.

OK, look at it this way: God declared a day of sabbath each week. Is it not inhumane and unGodly to require someone to work steadily without any time off?

My sister (a very conservative one at that) told me that in her jobs the best boss's weren't christian. How sad. I don't think I'd want to be working for the horseman. He uses his choices in life as an excuse on how to treat other people.

My sister (a very conservative one at that) told me that in her jobs the best boss's weren't christian. How sad. I don't think I'd want to be working for the horseman. He uses his choices in life as an excuse on how to treat other people.

uhhh, I believe they call that slavery! Oh, I'm sorry, I misread your double negative so we probably agree.

I think that the issue here is corporate greed. I took a cruise recently and got to know our servers very well, and was appalled at how hard they have to work just to keep their jobs (ie. unreasonable hours, no time off etc). Yes, technically they can quit, they are not held there against their will. But what bothers me is that employers treat their employees this way. Companies that do not people well should be bankrupted. We always blame the workers for not quitting instead of challenging the companies to a higher standard.

Jessica, I appreciated hearing your story and how much you cared for your fellow worker. I would agree with you that it is unfair and unethical to pressure employees into further contracts simply because "we couldn't find a replacement in time."

But it seems to me that the true problem is most likely not a vast, widespread conspiracy by Cruise Ship companies. What I believe is the problem is a lack of strength among employees to fight back against the pressure. Your article cited only 1 instance, with 1 cruise ship, that you were personally aware of.

As a voice to the other side of the argument, I used to teach English in Indonesia and many of our students had come from, were currently training for, or had recently returned from working the same jobs on cruise ships that you mention. They were waiters, bartenders, and cleaning staff. Without fail, out of over 10 students that I talked to every one of them could not have spoken higher of the job. They did mention it's long hours but when they viewed that alongside the high wages and opportunities to travel to the US, the Caribbean, and many locations in Europe the long hours could most certainly be tolerated.

The fact is, your friend wanted to go home yes. And she was being held almost against her will. But she also never claimed this problem was prolific or reoccurring.

The case, as it seems here, is that we've blown up an issue over 1 worker's issues with a particular company into a global meltdown of all ethics aboard any cruise ship - anywhere. I would suggest that when we see someone, like your friend, those of us who find ourselves in a position with more power should speak up for our friend and most certainly challenge the system that is holding immigrant workers hostage. But it is hardly something that we can claim is affecting every, or almost every, or even 2 cruise ships when we can only find facts to support 1 simple case.

Jessica, I appreciated hearing your story and how much you cared for your fellow worker. I would agree with you that it is unfair and unethical to pressure employees into further contracts simply because "we couldn't find a replacement in time."

But it seems to me that the true problem is most likely not a vast, widespread conspiracy by Cruise Ship companies. What I believe is the problem is a lack of strength among employees to fight back against the pressure. Your article cited only 1 instance, with 1 cruise ship, that you were personally aware of.

As a voice to the other side of the argument, I used to teach English in Indonesia and many of our students had come from, were currently training for, or had recently returned from working the same jobs on cruise ships that you mention. They were waiters, bartenders, and cleaning staff. Without fail, out of over 10 students that I talked to every one of them could not have spoken higher of the job. They did mention it's long hours but when they viewed that alongside the high wages and opportunities to travel to the US, the Caribbean, and many locations in Europe the long hours could most certainly be tolerated.

The fact is, your friend wanted to go home yes. And she was being held almost against her will. But she also never claimed this problem was prolific or reoccurring.

The case, as it seems here, is that we've blown up an issue over 1 worker's issues with a particular company into a global meltdown of all ethics aboard any cruise ship - anywhere. I would suggest that when we see someone, like your friend, those of us who find ourselves in a position with more power should speak up for our friend and most certainly challenge the system that is holding immigrant workers hostage. But it is hardly something that we can claim is affecting every, or almost every, or even 2 cruise ships when we can only find facts to support 1 simple case.

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