Glenn Beck, Wrong Again

Dixon's summation of Beck's summation of liberation theology is laughable.

"Beck's mistaken analysis wants all white people to think that all black people are after their job, house, and money in the name of Jesus. This is flat wrong."

Dixon is flat wrong, this not even close to Beck's analysis of liberation theology.

He merely highlights that salvation is an individual, rather than collective, concept. And that each man will have to give an account for the way they lived their lives. We will not be judged as a collective.

Now, I'll be the first to point out that each man will have to answer for how he loved thy neighbor and stood up for justice, but the bible is pretty clear that we all will face judgement individually.

"i think his Kingdom replaces politics"

Now your talking revolutionary politics!

The question will always be, How must Christians respond to the unjust wielding of power by anyone over others? Where Godly men rule a people prosper. If we are to seek justice, what will our role be? When rulers do not yield to the will of the Father on justice, God calls His people to intervene.

The gospel birthed a people with a heart for justice, who like Jesus should be filled with such compassion and love that they can do nothing but speak for those who cannot speak for themselves.

John 14:15 If you love me, you will obey what I command.
(Loving the Lord God with all your heart soul and mind and your neighbor as yourself are the last two commandments Jesus left us with.)
1Jo 3:10 In this [born of God] the children of God are MANIFEST, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, Neither He That Loveth Not His Brother!

I can't help but understand that the fruit of someone who is a byproduct of the gospel, is known as someone who manifests love for their fellow man.

And so we ask that those not sharing those beliefs about the sacrament of Eucharist be respectful of ours during our worship service (the Mass), and refrain from receiving Communion. Everyone is welcome to come forward at Communion time to receive a blessing.

And that is precisely why I won't attend a Catholic Mass -- for openers, I think that the theology involved is wrong. (It would take me a while to explain that.) I'm permitted communion in virtually every Protestant denomination and church; Missouri Synod Lutherans are the only exception I'm aware of and even then I could meet with a pastor ahead of time. I also find it unacceptable that you as a Catholic would not be permitted to commune in most Protestant churches (although I think Lutherans and Anglicans might be OK now).

But that's a digression.

Dixon's summation of Beck's summation of liberation theology is laughable.

"Beck's mistaken analysis wants all white people to think that all black people are after their job, house, and money in the name of Jesus. This is flat wrong."

Dixon is flat wrong, this not even close to Beck's analysis of liberation theology.

He merely highlights that salvation is an individual, rather than collective, concept. And that each man will have to give an account for the way they lived their lives. We will not be judged as a collective.

Now, I'll be the first to point out that each man will have to answer for how he loved thy neighbor and stood up for justice, but the bible is pretty clear that we all will face judgement individually.

"Liberation theology remembers that it was a political entity, the Roman Empire, which killed Jesus because his teachings of fearless, radical love, of generosity, and of care of the least in the society were a threat to the empire."

This is fallacious. The Roman Empire was a tool used by the Jewish religious leaders of the day to kill Jesus (as they weren't allowed to do it themselves under Roman Law). Compare the accusations in the two trials. Before the high priest he was accused of claiming to be the Christ/Son of God(Luke 22:66-71), but when brought before the Roman authority, Pilate, the charge suddenly was changed to inciting political unrest (Luke 23:2). Pilate's first impression, remember, was that Jesus had done nothing wrong, but he carried out the execution in order to appease the chief priests and other Jewish leaders. Jesus's quintessential prayer of "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do," was in reference the Roman soldiers, who, some might argue, were just doing their job, though perhaps overzealously.

As this discussion on Liberation Theology progresses (which I think is poorly represented, not only by the media, but by many who preach it the loudest), it should be important to point out that the very reason that the scribes and Pharisees rejected Jesus as the messiah was precisely because he WAS NOT the great political leader many of them expected to come and free them from Roman oppression.

"Liberation theology remembers that it was a political entity, the Roman Empire, which killed Jesus because his teachings of fearless, radical love, of generosity, and of care of the least in the society were a threat to the empire."

This is fallacious. The Roman Empire was a tool used by the Jewish religious leaders of the day to kill Jesus (as they weren't allowed to do it themselves under Roman Law). Compare the accusations in the two trials. Before the high priest he was accused of claiming to be the Christ/Son of God(Luke 22:66-71), but when brought before the Roman authority, Pilate, the charge suddenly was changed to inciting political unrest (Luke 23:2). Pilate's first impression, remember, was that Jesus had done nothing wrong, but he carried out the execution in order to appease the chief priests and other Jewish leaders. Jesus's quintessential prayer of "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do," was in reference the Roman soldiers, who, some might argue, were just doing their job, though perhaps overzealously.

As this discussion on Liberation Theology progresses (which I think is poorly represented, not only by the media, but by many who preach it the loudest), it should be important to point out that the very reason that the scribes and Pharisees rejected Jesus as the messiah was precisely because he WAS NOT the great political leader many of them expected to come and free them from Roman oppression.

"i think his Kingdom replaces politics"

Now your talking revolutionary politics!

Are Mormons saved? individually or collectively?

The frequent criticism of Beck, whether warranted or not, is really starting to get old. Sojo offers some thoughtful commentary on a number of theological issues, but haven't people had enough of this?

Hasn't the body of Christ come a long way. My husband, 63, was raised in parochial schools. I was raised pentecostal. The worst thing either of us could do according to our parents was marry an "unbeliever" as in Catholic, or protestant.

I went one step further and married a divorced Catholic. Oh my did the fur fly. And God has used both our families as catalysts to keep me seeking after God's truths.

I am so grateful for the Catholic heritage my husband's family has offered me. My own childhood faith has been more like a cattle prod to help me not become complacent or comfortable with a performance based faith.

Like Blue Deacon, I've always differed on the eucharist teaching of transubstantiation. I think I got that term right. However in my recent studies, I've begun to see the amazing power in taking communion for life transforming healing events, and am reminded that Jesus's blood and body have been eternally offered up for our salvation. We are each time we partake of it, acknowledging that moment and applying it to our daily lives. How more real can that be? There truly is less that divides us as Jesus becomes the cornerstone of our body of believers. As walls come down I think the church will walk in such power as to truly be a beacon on the hill and draw the unbeliever close and into its doors wherever they may be.

Belt 32

I have a wonderfully delightful friend who is Mormon. Her husband served as President of their congregation, (is that the right terminology?)

Alas, there were many many things we differed on.

For instance: I do not believe Jesus and Satan were brothers. I believe Jesus is God and has always existed with God. In fact I do believe that the heavens and earth were created by Jesus as was the created being Satan. (the word created her in the original text means to bring from nothing or chaos, so no I don't mean Jesus got to organize God's creation, like I've heard Mormons tell me.)

(John 1:1-3 NIV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. {2} He was with God in the beginning. {3} Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jesus Christ is that Word, who created everything. This aligns with the Genesis account of the spoken Word. (Genesis 1:1-3 NIV) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. {2} Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. {3} And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.

I believe only God could offer a sinless sacrifice, and I believe Jesus was legally killed by the Jewish leaders because he did not deny his equality with God. To claim equality with God in the Jewish religion was heresy and punishable by death as the Jews only believed in one God.

This argument could go on and on and on as I learned with my friends even to the point of changing original greek text to proof a passage.

Wherever my friend is before the Lord, I loved her and I know God did too.

My bible tells me, Not by works lest any man should boast it is truly a free gift Not an act of the will or of the flesh, but like the thief on the cross, who had little chance to atone for his sins, there was just an acknowledgement an acceptance of who Christ was and what he did. That is Grace powerful enough to change a heart and usher a sinner into the kingdom of God.

Where many Mormons have great and wonderful tenets that they live by, some even putting "Christians" to shame, they do not follow the Christ that Paul preached. As Paul said, if I or another or even angels preach a different Jesus than that which is preached let him be declared separated from God. He was talking legalism there or salvation earned by works. I can't add to my salvation even by seeking justice for the poor or feeding them or loving them as myself.

The fact of the matter is, Mormons do not believe anyone but Mormons, baptized by an authorized person can be saved. And that isn't what my Christ tells me.

So while I recognize you as a person qualified to an opinion on politics or Glen Beck's politics, or even social justice, I cannot say with any authority that you follow the Christ of Scripture.

Please no more discussion on SOJO about Glenn Beck. He's an entertainer and a provocatuer who intentionally makes bizarre arguments. Please give us something more meaty to chew on than this tit-for-tat pablum. Cheers...

He merely highlights that salvation is an individual, rather than collective, concept. And that each man will have to give an account for the way they lived their lives. We will not be judged as a collective.

Do we even know that Beck believes this? Remember, he is of the LDS church, which does teach a collective salvation (some interpretations teach that getting a temple marriage is required in order to get into the highest ring of heaven).

I am the one not permitting me, not the Catholic Church. What I see as respect of differences in belief, you see as denial of fellowship.

The first four of the thirteen "Articles of Faith" of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (http://www.mormon.org/articles-of-faith/ ):

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.

3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Sounds pretty clear that they believe that a person's salvation depends on his own decisions, faith and acceptance of the atonement of Christ. So, if your point is to call into question whether or not Glenn Beck's statements are consistent with the theology of the church he attends, they are.

The first four of the thirteen "Articles of Faith" of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (http://www.mormon.org/articles-of-faith/ ):

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.

3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Sounds pretty clear that they believe that a person's salvation depends on his own decisions, faith and acceptance of the atonement of Christ. So, if your point is to call into question whether or not Glenn Beck's statements are consistent with the theology of the church he attends, they are.

"So, if your point is to call into question whether or not Glenn Beck's statements are consistent with the theology of the church he attends, they are."
If they are consistent with the church he attends, then Christians have no business giving any heed to a heretic (one who does not adhere to the basic tenents of a faith) expound on the nature of their eternal salvation. None of the first four articles are in compliance with Christian doctrine. The founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith, began his movement with a special revelation that ALL of the Christian churches of his day were in error.
In fact there are some Bible believing Christian churches that believe that they should not even wish the Mormons "God-speed" when they interact with them as they believe they are heretics leading people away from eternal life based on the verse in 2John: 9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

11For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

If we are not to invite them in wouldn't that include radio and TV? To say nothing about listening to their doctrine of salvation!

"Liberation theology remembers that it was a political entity, the Roman Empire, which killed Jesus because his teachings of fearless, radical love, of generosity, and of care of the least in the society were a threat to the empire."

Wow. I thought it had something to do with Jesus claiming He was the Son of God and making the religious order of his day uncomfortable.

I think Dixon misses Beck's point entirely, but even so, in her rebuttal illuminates what is wrongheaded about liberation theology.

Comment Code of Conduct: "I will not exaggerate others' beliefs nor make unfounded prejudicial assumptions based on labels, categories, or stereotypes. I will always extend the benefit of the doubt. (Ephesians 4:29) "

Once again, I find myself wondering how this became about Glenn Beck's church? As I recall from Beck's own show, he predicted that some might make this very argument.

Instead, let's keep it about the merits of Black Liberation Theology, as one could just as easily reference these scriptures about those who preach that doctrine.

As for whether or the Mormons "abide in the doctrine of Christ," you can go ahead and check out http://www.mormon.org/ and make a fully informed judgment call.

As did many revolutionaries. I don't think that means much of anything as far as comparisons go.

Jesus actually DID overthrow the existing world order to an extent no other man could.

Comment Code of Conduct: "I will not exaggerate others' beliefs nor make unfounded prejudicial assumptions based on labels, categories, or stereotypes. I will always extend the benefit of the doubt. (Ephesians 4:29)"

You're treading on dangerous waters, as there are many (not just "Mormons") who ardently believe the same about Black Liberation Theology.

What exactly disqualifies The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints from being Christian is probably a discussion best reserved for another time and place.

In the mean time, you can check out http://www.mormon.org/ if you want to get a more accurate idea of what Mormons may or may not believe concerning Christ.

The frequent criticism of Beck, whether warranted or not, is really starting to get old. Sojo offers some thoughtful commentary on a number of theological issues, but haven't people had enough of this?

I think Pastor Jeff's question was whether the theology of the church Beck attends is consistent with Christianity, and the answer is a resounding no.