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The Immoral Impediments to Immigration Reform

One day I'd love to understand why conservatives seem so good at public relations, while liberals, at ridicule. I've had a chance to confirm this observation with a PR writing professor at the University of Pennsylvania, but our conversation did not include his hypotheses as to why. Cable channel line-ups seem to bear out the observation. Bill O'Reilly and Glenn Beck, leading conservative opinion-shapers, are on FOX News. Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert, of comparable influence, are on Comedy Central. Conservatives name, liberals mock: The challenge is that laughter fades.

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Still, Americans have more than just dualistic political options. There has been a third equally vital ideology in the political fray for over a hundred years: progressivism. Though in America progressivism is most often associated with the politics of the left, progressives are not exclusively liberal, neither here nor around the world. The Republican party were the progressives of Lincoln's day. What seems to unite progressive thought is a commitment to analyzing a given situation and calculating what might better the situation for most stakeholders. "Progressivism is a political attitude favoring or advocating changes or reform," and it has been responsible for most, if not all, advancements that have opened up the political process and political bounty of our nation to more and more of its citizens.

Progressives have enjoyed many landmark triumphs in the American saga: abolition, women's suffrage, civil rights, ADA, and now health-care reform. Notwithstanding past victories, however, progressives can never win a debate over "illegal immigration." The terms of the debate are stacked against them. The terms themselves feed into our national self-image as "a nation of laws" -- despite the dubious morality of many laws historically. Shouldn't everyone want legal immigration? Doesn't every nation have the right to document and even regulate at will the influx of travelers into their territories? Of course they do. There's no way around this.

Nonetheless, that is not the issue at stake regarding immigration reform; that is the conservative ideological sound-bite. It's a PR statement that perpetually picks an argument that no one is having in order to distract from a critical analysis of the injustices being done in the name of it. The right to make rules says nothing about the quality of the rules made; and quality is an intricately complex issue; and complexity is by nature adverse to sound-bites. The issue is not whether there should be rules for the orderly entrance and egress of U.S. migrants, or whether U.S. migrants should have to follow those rules -- both simple fights to pick over and over and over and over ad nauseam. The real issue is how we regulate -- honestly, equitably, and justly.

Honesty, equity, and justice are not ethereal concepts. They are very tangible ideals enshrined in our nation's constitution as goals toward which we should strive to forever perfect. We cannot be honest if we ignore the truths regarding the specific groups of people our immigration laws have and currently favor or inhibit. We cannot be equitable if we continue to ignore the fact that the persistent attention given to our southern boarder belies the fact that we are no more secure to the north or through our ports. In fact our southern boarder has more natural impediments than the others. Any determined threat would look for the path of least resistance, not greatest. So an almost exclusive focus on the southern boarder can't be about security; it must have additional motivation, with the potential threat being equal on all sides. And we cannot be just if we ignore the abominable duplicity of migrating to a land in the name of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, sheltered by the good graces of those who were already here, then writing laws that inhibit specific demographics from following suit.

Progressives can't win an argument about "illegal immigration." But the fact is they shouldn't try. It's a PR distraction that has served conservatives (and occasionally liberals) well. What progressives can take exception to -- and should -- are immoral impediments to the pursuits of human dignity -- the basic human dignities of providing food, shelter, education, health care, and opportunities for one's self and one's family.

While it is highly unlikely that a mere shift in language would accomplish the deep shift in conversation that needs to take place in order to do justly, love equity, walk honesty, it is a necessary start. Jesus made a very similarly politically consequential linguistic shift when he said, "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be children of your Father in heaven ... [For] if you greet only your brothers and sisters, what more are you doing than others?"

Not everybody gets it, but if we take off the table meaningless language of "illegal immigration" that obscures the fact that we are a nation of illegal immigrants by someone else's perspective, a generation from now there will be few for whom that name even resonates.

Melvin BrayMelvin Bray is coordinating author of Stories in Which We Find Ourselves, a 'post-ism' Bible story project. He is also one of many hosts of 2010 Emergent Village Theological Conversation: Creating Liberated Spaces in a Post-Colonial World -- November 1-3, 2010. If you were interested in the "Is the Emerging Church for Whites Only?" article, you'll definitely be interested in this conversation.

+ CCIR: Sign up for "On the Move" on August 12, a webinar with Rev. David Vasquez on immigration stories and ministry.

Sojourners relies on the support of readers like you to sustain our message and ministry.

by: melvinbray

08-05-2010 @ 2:15pm

sam, mine is one specific, actionable proposal for engaging in a conversation about immigration reform. it's only a first step, but i believe it is a necessary step to creating a more constructive dynamic. if you click the tag "immigration reform," you'll find other proposals. those may or may not include specific stances jim wallis has taken on behalf of sojo. furthermore, i believe the take action button links to a letter writing campaign regarding immigration reform as well.

my concern is not the advancement of a specific plan, but rather engagement in fruitful conversation that leads to generative policy. too often of late we allow ideological wrangling and maneuvering to substitute for legislation and execution. however, their are plans publicly available (even in congress) should you desire to review them.

by: melvinbray

08-05-2010 @ 2:15pm

sam, mine is one specific, actionable proposal for engaging in a conversation about immigration reform. it's only a first step, but i believe it is a necessary step to creating a more constructive dynamic. if you click the tag "immigration reform," you'll find other proposals. those may or may not include specific stances jim wallis has taken on behalf of sojo. furthermore, i believe the take action button links to a letter writing campaign regarding immigration reform as well.

my concern is not the advancement of a specific plan, but rather engagement in fruitful conversation that leads to generative policy. too often of late we allow ideological wrangling and maneuvering to substitute for legislation and execution. however, their are plans publicly available (even in congress) should you desire to review them.

by: Ngchen

08-05-2010 @ 1:57pm

Yes, I agree completely. There is a big difference between progressivism and sheer utilitarianism. At the same time, progressivism is perhaps really hard to pin down, perhaps by design. I made a partial list of what I thought were distinguishing features between progressives and conservatives a while back, and I realize that the list was a very incomplete one.

by: Ngchen

08-05-2010 @ 1:57pm

Yes, I agree completely. There is a big difference between progressivism and sheer utilitarianism. At the same time, progressivism is perhaps really hard to pin down, perhaps by design. I made a partial list of what I thought were distinguishing features between progressives and conservatives a while back, and I realize that the list was a very incomplete one.

by: melvinbray

08-05-2010 @ 1:42pm

ngchen, i knew when i wrote that it could immediately be construed as conflating progressivism with (what is it?) utilitarianism. i am not. i try to be precise in my language, but sadly, my internal lexicon is not always broad and/or nimble enough to match my intent.

'progressivism' as i use it is often a moving target, because it requires one to constantly self critique and ask, "what might we do better?" what is essential to it is not that it service the majority, but rather that it ever seek to expand the pool of those it does serve. it's about progress, about not being satisfied that we've done enough. it's a moral and political disposition of generosity that embodies the humility that many of us are already privileged enough.

by: melvinbray

08-05-2010 @ 1:42pm

ngchen, i knew when i wrote that it could immediately be construed as conflating progressivism with (what is it?) utilitarianism. i am not. i try to be precise in my language, but sadly, my internal lexicon is not always broad and/or nimble enough to match my intent.

'progressivism' as i use it is often a moving target, because it requires one to constantly self critique and ask, "what might we do better?" what is essential to it is not that it service the majority, but rather that it ever seek to expand the pool of those it does serve. it's about progress, about not being satisfied that we've done enough. it's a moral and political disposition of generosity that embodies the humility that many of us are already privileged enough.

by: solagratia

08-06-2010 @ 7:57am

Hmm. I wonder if it might be possible to make complex arguments in a vivid visual way. To say, "No, it's not A + B = C but instead" (and then figure out what the argument really is and depict it colorfully or something).

by: solagratia

08-06-2010 @ 7:57am

Hmm. I wonder if it might be possible to make complex arguments in a vivid visual way. To say, "No, it's not A + B = C but instead" (and then figure out what the argument really is and depict it colorfully or something).

by: Peace and Joy

08-04-2010 @ 4:11pm

Preach it!

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 4:35pm

"In fact our southern boarder has more natural impediments than the others. Any determined threat would look for the path of least resistance, not greatest. So an almost exclusive focus on the southern boarder can't be about security; it must have additional motivation, with the potential threat being equal on all sides."

This is pure sophistry. For all our differences with Canada, Canada itself is a more secure and prosperous nation, hence there is virtually no illegal immigration coming out of Canada. The physical barriers may be a bit more imposing to the south, but they are hardly uncrossable, and the smuggling rings are all in the south. Our concern is not the terrain, its the weak government and well-organized criminal enterprises that have built up along the southern border.

While I am sure that terror networks have looked for weaknesses along the US-Canada line, the weak law enforcement gives terrorists more opportunity to set up bases in the south, and the presence of smuggling operations gives them partners with knowledge of gaps and the methods of exploiting them.

In short: from Canada crossing the border is an operation -- a terrorist has to scout, plan, and execute his own border crossing. From Mexico it's a transaction -- pay a smuggler and arrange a date and time.

LV

by: BuckeyeDon

08-04-2010 @ 4:43pm

The fact remains that the only terrorist attempt to smuggle a bomb across our border came from the northern one, not the southern one.

by: BuckeyeDon

08-04-2010 @ 4:43pm

The fact remains that the only terrorist attempt to smuggle a bomb across our border came from the northern one, not the southern one.

by: solagratia

08-06-2010 @ 7:57am

Hmm. I wonder if it might be possible to make complex arguments in a vivid visual way. To say, "No, it's not A + B = C but instead" (and then figure out what the argument really is and depict it colorfully or something).

by: Peace and Joy

08-04-2010 @ 4:11pm

Preach it!

by: BlueDeacon

08-04-2010 @ 6:25pm

One day I'd love to understand why conservatives seem so good at public relations, while liberals, at ridicule.

This really isn't true. It's just that the conservatives are excellent at telling people what they want to hear, and Beck and O'Reilly make their marks by ridiculing people personally.

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 4:35pm

"In fact our southern boarder has more natural impediments than the others. Any determined threat would look for the path of least resistance, not greatest. So an almost exclusive focus on the southern boarder can't be about security; it must have additional motivation, with the potential threat being equal on all sides."

This is pure sophistry. For all our differences with Canada, Canada itself is a more secure and prosperous nation, hence there is virtually no illegal immigration coming out of Canada. The physical barriers may be a bit more imposing to the south, but they are hardly uncrossable, and the smuggling rings are all in the south. Our concern is not the terrain, its the weak government and well-organized criminal enterprises that have built up along the southern border.

While I am sure that terror networks have looked for weaknesses along the US-Canada line, the weak law enforcement gives terrorists more opportunity to set up bases in the south, and the presence of smuggling operations gives them partners with knowledge of gaps and the methods of exploiting them.

In short: from Canada crossing the border is an operation -- a terrorist has to scout, plan, and execute his own border crossing. From Mexico it's a transaction -- pay a smuggler and arrange a date and time.

LV

by: BuckeyeDon

08-04-2010 @ 4:43pm

The fact remains that the only terrorist attempt to smuggle a bomb across our border came from the northern one, not the southern one.

by: Patricia

08-04-2010 @ 7:11pm

"I will not exaggerate others' beliefs nor make unfounded prejudicial assumptions based on labels, categories, or stereotypes. I will always extend the benefit of the doubt."

By categorizing "the left" as "masters of snide and contempt for the common man", and maintaining "the right" "value people as individuals, and our philosophy is one that values the hopes and aspirations of people", I believe you are in violation of the COC.

Would you like to edit?

by: Patricia

08-04-2010 @ 7:11pm

"I will not exaggerate others' beliefs nor make unfounded prejudicial assumptions based on labels, categories, or stereotypes. I will always extend the benefit of the doubt."

By categorizing "the left" as "masters of snide and contempt for the common man", and maintaining "the right" "value people as individuals, and our philosophy is one that values the hopes and aspirations of people", I believe you are in violation of the COC.

Would you like to edit?

by: BlueDeacon

08-04-2010 @ 7:07pm

Meanwhile conservatives value people as individuals, and our philosophy is one that values the hopes and aspirations of people. Rather than imposing solutions from Washington on high, we seek to empower people to follow their own dreams, be they humble or grand.

Their history from the 1960s on puts the lie to that statement. In fact, they willingly destroy the dreams of those they feel are beneath them, not to mention those of their champions.

by: BlueDeacon

08-04-2010 @ 7:07pm

Meanwhile conservatives value people as individuals, and our philosophy is one that values the hopes and aspirations of people. Rather than imposing solutions from Washington on high, we seek to empower people to follow their own dreams, be they humble or grand.

Their history from the 1960s on puts the lie to that statement. In fact, they willingly destroy the dreams of those they feel are beneath them, not to mention those of their champions.

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 7:03pm

"One day I'd love to understand why conservatives seem so good at public relations, while liberals, at ridicule."

Happy to explain that to you. Right now the left has become the masters of snide and contempt for the common man. This snideness, in the hands of the clever, makes for good comedy at times. Whether it is constructive over the long haul is another matter.

Meanwhile conservatives value people as individuals, and our philosophy is one that values the hopes and aspirations of people. Rather than imposing solutions from Washington on high, we seek to empower people to follow their own dreams, be they humble or grand. Since we attempt to relate to people as people, rather than as manifestations of some collective identity or interest group members or bearers of grievances. This allows to ask people such novel questions as "What would you like to do?" or "what do you expect from government?" without imposing a detailed program or policy agenda in advance.

Those are our secrets -- less contempt and snark, treat individuals as individuals.

As always, I'm happy to share,

LV

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 7:03pm

"One day I'd love to understand why conservatives seem so good at public relations, while liberals, at ridicule."

Happy to explain that to you. Right now the left has become the masters of snide and contempt for the common man. This snideness, in the hands of the clever, makes for good comedy at times. Whether it is constructive over the long haul is another matter.

Meanwhile conservatives value people as individuals, and our philosophy is one that values the hopes and aspirations of people. Rather than imposing solutions from Washington on high, we seek to empower people to follow their own dreams, be they humble or grand. Since we attempt to relate to people as people, rather than as manifestations of some collective identity or interest group members or bearers of grievances. This allows to ask people such novel questions as "What would you like to do?" or "what do you expect from government?" without imposing a detailed program or policy agenda in advance.

Those are our secrets -- less contempt and snark, treat individuals as individuals.

As always, I'm happy to share,

LV

by: Patricia

08-04-2010 @ 6:54pm

I'm not sure I buy your examples of Stewart and Colbert as "liberals" - they're comedians and ridicule is their method. They will ridicule anyone, conservative or liberal, who provides fodder.

It would have been better if you had provided examples of liberals on the same level and with the same supposed credentials as O'Reilly and Beck.

by: BlueDeacon

08-04-2010 @ 6:25pm

One day I'd love to understand why conservatives seem so good at public relations, while liberals, at ridicule.

This really isn't true. It's just that the conservatives are excellent at telling people what they want to hear, and Beck and O'Reilly make their marks by ridiculing people personally.

by: Patricia

08-04-2010 @ 6:54pm

I'm not sure I buy your examples of Stewart and Colbert as "liberals" - they're comedians and ridicule is their method. They will ridicule anyone, conservative or liberal, who provides fodder.

It would have been better if you had provided examples of liberals on the same level and with the same supposed credentials as O'Reilly and Beck.

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 6:53pm

Buckeye Don,

That's a total red herring. Who said a terrorist has to have a bomb on him when he crosses the border in order to count? You do realize that bombs can be constructed on this side of the border. Then there's the 9-11 plot, in which terrorists managed to do terrible damage without a single actual bomb.

LV

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 6:53pm

Buckeye Don,

That's a total red herring. Who said a terrorist has to have a bomb on him when he crosses the border in order to count? You do realize that bombs can be constructed on this side of the border. Then there's the 9-11 plot, in which terrorists managed to do terrible damage without a single actual bomb.

LV

by: Patricia

08-04-2010 @ 7:11pm

"I will not exaggerate others' beliefs nor make unfounded prejudicial assumptions based on labels, categories, or stereotypes. I will always extend the benefit of the doubt."

By categorizing "the left" as "masters of snide and contempt for the common man", and maintaining "the right" "value people as individuals, and our philosophy is one that values the hopes and aspirations of people", I believe you are in violation of the COC.

Would you like to edit?

by: BlueDeacon

08-04-2010 @ 7:07pm

Meanwhile conservatives value people as individuals, and our philosophy is one that values the hopes and aspirations of people. Rather than imposing solutions from Washington on high, we seek to empower people to follow their own dreams, be they humble or grand.

Their history from the 1960s on puts the lie to that statement. In fact, they willingly destroy the dreams of those they feel are beneath them, not to mention those of their champions.

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 7:03pm

"One day I'd love to understand why conservatives seem so good at public relations, while liberals, at ridicule."

Happy to explain that to you. Right now the left has become the masters of snide and contempt for the common man. This snideness, in the hands of the clever, makes for good comedy at times. Whether it is constructive over the long haul is another matter.

Meanwhile conservatives value people as individuals, and our philosophy is one that values the hopes and aspirations of people. Rather than imposing solutions from Washington on high, we seek to empower people to follow their own dreams, be they humble or grand. Since we attempt to relate to people as people, rather than as manifestations of some collective identity or interest group members or bearers of grievances. This allows to ask people such novel questions as "What would you like to do?" or "what do you expect from government?" without imposing a detailed program or policy agenda in advance.

Those are our secrets -- less contempt and snark, treat individuals as individuals.

As always, I'm happy to share,

LV

by: Patricia

08-04-2010 @ 6:54pm

I'm not sure I buy your examples of Stewart and Colbert as "liberals" - they're comedians and ridicule is their method. They will ridicule anyone, conservative or liberal, who provides fodder.

It would have been better if you had provided examples of liberals on the same level and with the same supposed credentials as O'Reilly and Beck.

by: duhsciple

08-04-2010 @ 8:17pm

"Tell you what, I'll edit when he does. Which will be never."

Love believes all things! Therefore, let us have hope. Let us not give up on people. Let us not write them off. Furthermore, love does not keep score of wrongs. Therefore, let us see one another as friends.

What do you think? Am I being too Jesus-y?

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 6:53pm

Buckeye Don,

That's a total red herring. Who said a terrorist has to have a bomb on him when he crosses the border in order to count? You do realize that bombs can be constructed on this side of the border. Then there's the 9-11 plot, in which terrorists managed to do terrible damage without a single actual bomb.

LV

by: duhsciple

08-04-2010 @ 8:17pm

"Tell you what, I'll edit when he does. Which will be never."

Love believes all things! Therefore, let us have hope. Let us not give up on people. Let us not write them off. Furthermore, love does not keep score of wrongs. Therefore, let us see one another as friends.

What do you think? Am I being too Jesus-y?

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 8:06pm

Patricia,

Here's a little something else I found, from our good friend Blue Deacon:

"It's just that the conservatives are excellent at telling people what they want to hear"

Tell you what, I'll edit when he does. Which will be never.

And to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure I'd want him to. He's entitled to his opinion of us.

LV

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 8:06pm

Patricia,

Here's a little something else I found, from our good friend Blue Deacon:

"It's just that the conservatives are excellent at telling people what they want to hear"

Tell you what, I'll edit when he does. Which will be never.

And to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure I'd want him to. He's entitled to his opinion of us.

LV

by: duhsciple

08-04-2010 @ 8:17pm

"Tell you what, I'll edit when he does. Which will be never."

Love believes all things! Therefore, let us have hope. Let us not give up on people. Let us not write them off. Furthermore, love does not keep score of wrongs. Therefore, let us see one another as friends.

What do you think? Am I being too Jesus-y?

by: Patricia

08-04-2010 @ 8:03pm

I appreciate your response!

Yes, it is true it's very difficult to find equivalents to O'Reilly and Beck on the left.

I do wish we could get past the "illegal immigrant" distraction - it's really preventing us from coming together and developing a reasonable, compassionate immigration POLICY.

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 8:06pm

Patricia,

Here's a little something else I found, from our good friend Blue Deacon:

"It's just that the conservatives are excellent at telling people what they want to hear"

Tell you what, I'll edit when he does. Which will be never.

And to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure I'd want him to. He's entitled to his opinion of us.

LV

by: Patricia

08-04-2010 @ 8:03pm

I appreciate your response!

Yes, it is true it's very difficult to find equivalents to O'Reilly and Beck on the left.

I do wish we could get past the "illegal immigrant" distraction - it's really preventing us from coming together and developing a reasonable, compassionate immigration POLICY.

by: Patricia

08-04-2010 @ 8:03pm

I appreciate your response!

Yes, it is true it's very difficult to find equivalents to O'Reilly and Beck on the left.

I do wish we could get past the "illegal immigrant" distraction - it's really preventing us from coming together and developing a reasonable, compassionate immigration POLICY.

by: duhsciple

08-04-2010 @ 7:54pm

This article makes a profound point. If I am reading Melvin correctly, the love of Christ compels us to seek the best for our neighbor- food, clothing, heath, shelter, education, dignified work. So often we lose sight of this through the distortion of language. Bottom line- does God see "legal or illegal" or does God see "precious, beloved daughter and son"? I hear Melvin say, "Beloved child!"

Scanning the comments, I observe that we are quick to fall into labels- liberal, conservative, progressive, left, right... Conservatives care for individuals? The left does not? Let me ask, "Am I not a child of God?" I ask, "Does not my heart bleed for the hurting and the oppressed?" Or am I simply, "a liberal who does not care for individuals?" I assure you that I literally weep over the media conversation in our country.

I assure you: it is my real life encounter with specific individuals and their suffering which drives my passion for large solutions. In my life, I have offered charity to specific individuals. Yet I have discovered that there are large, impersonal, satanic systems of injustice. I cannot attempt to feel good about myself, helping particular individuals, and believe that is enough.

I have confidence that the vast majority posting here agree with the old song, "Red and yellow, black and white, we are precious in His sight, Jesus loves the little children of the world". And Jesus loves the children regardless of their (il)legality!

by: duhsciple

08-04-2010 @ 7:54pm

This article makes a profound point. If I am reading Melvin correctly, the love of Christ compels us to seek the best for our neighbor- food, clothing, heath, shelter, education, dignified work. So often we lose sight of this through the distortion of language. Bottom line- does God see "legal or illegal" or does God see "precious, beloved daughter and son"? I hear Melvin say, "Beloved child!"

Scanning the comments, I observe that we are quick to fall into labels- liberal, conservative, progressive, left, right... Conservatives care for individuals? The left does not? Let me ask, "Am I not a child of God?" I ask, "Does not my heart bleed for the hurting and the oppressed?" Or am I simply, "a liberal who does not care for individuals?" I assure you that I literally weep over the media conversation in our country.

I assure you: it is my real life encounter with specific individuals and their suffering which drives my passion for large solutions. In my life, I have offered charity to specific individuals. Yet I have discovered that there are large, impersonal, satanic systems of injustice. I cannot attempt to feel good about myself, helping particular individuals, and believe that is enough.

I have confidence that the vast majority posting here agree with the old song, "Red and yellow, black and white, we are precious in His sight, Jesus loves the little children of the world". And Jesus loves the children regardless of their (il)legality!

by: duhsciple

08-04-2010 @ 7:54pm

This article makes a profound point. If I am reading Melvin correctly, the love of Christ compels us to seek the best for our neighbor- food, clothing, heath, shelter, education, dignified work. So often we lose sight of this through the distortion of language. Bottom line- does God see "legal or illegal" or does God see "precious, beloved daughter and son"? I hear Melvin say, "Beloved child!"

Scanning the comments, I observe that we are quick to fall into labels- liberal, conservative, progressive, left, right... Conservatives care for individuals? The left does not? Let me ask, "Am I not a child of God?" I ask, "Does not my heart bleed for the hurting and the oppressed?" Or am I simply, "a liberal who does not care for individuals?" I assure you that I literally weep over the media conversation in our country.

I assure you: it is my real life encounter with specific individuals and their suffering which drives my passion for large solutions. In my life, I have offered charity to specific individuals. Yet I have discovered that there are large, impersonal, satanic systems of injustice. I cannot attempt to feel good about myself, helping particular individuals, and believe that is enough.

I have confidence that the vast majority posting here agree with the old song, "Red and yellow, black and white, we are precious in His sight, Jesus loves the little children of the world". And Jesus loves the children regardless of their (il)legality!

by: melvinbray

08-04-2010 @ 7:38pm

patricia, i understand your hesitance in embracing this particular example. i thought of using, keith olbermann and rachel maddow as examples, but their audiences are not as large as beck and o'reilly's. plus olbermann and maddow are as least as much journalists as they are social commentators. that's a difficult argument to make for o'reilly and beck.

colbert and stewart are admittedly commentators (satirists as opposed to comedians). i believe stewart self-identifies as a liberal (i could be wrong), while colbert trends liberal in his sympathies, though his character is ambiguously ultra-conservative and he parodies FOX. interestingly enough, a study done on viewers of the colbert show revealed that the more conservative one is the more s/he sees colbert's persona as unmitigatedly conservative. ultra-conservatives supposedly miss the irony in most his comments.

by: melvinbray

08-04-2010 @ 7:38pm

patricia, i understand your hesitance in embracing this particular example. i thought of using, keith olbermann and rachel maddow as examples, but their audiences are not as large as beck and o'reilly's. plus olbermann and maddow are as least as much journalists as they are social commentators. that's a difficult argument to make for o'reilly and beck.

colbert and stewart are admittedly commentators (satirists as opposed to comedians). i believe stewart self-identifies as a liberal (i could be wrong), while colbert trends liberal in his sympathies, though his character is ambiguously ultra-conservative and he parodies FOX. interestingly enough, a study done on viewers of the colbert show revealed that the more conservative one is the more s/he sees colbert's persona as unmitigatedly conservative. ultra-conservatives supposedly miss the irony in most his comments.

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 8:40pm

Duhsciple

Love also does not multiply grievances. I was not particularly hurt by the good Deacon's comments, and see no need to have them edited.

Jesus referred to the Pharisees and Sadducees as "a brood of vipers" -- dismissing two entire religious sects with a single insult! So no, I wouldn't worry about you being too Jesus-y, because whatever else Jesus might have been, he was not inflexibly committed to inoffensiveness.

LV

by: melvinbray

08-04-2010 @ 7:38pm

patricia, i understand your hesitance in embracing this particular example. i thought of using, keith olbermann and rachel maddow as examples, but their audiences are not as large as beck and o'reilly's. plus olbermann and maddow are as least as much journalists as they are social commentators. that's a difficult argument to make for o'reilly and beck.

colbert and stewart are admittedly commentators (satirists as opposed to comedians). i believe stewart self-identifies as a liberal (i could be wrong), while colbert trends liberal in his sympathies, though his character is ambiguously ultra-conservative and he parodies FOX. interestingly enough, a study done on viewers of the colbert show revealed that the more conservative one is the more s/he sees colbert's persona as unmitigatedly conservative. ultra-conservatives supposedly miss the irony in most his comments.

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 8:40pm

Duhsciple

Love also does not multiply grievances. I was not particularly hurt by the good Deacon's comments, and see no need to have them edited.

Jesus referred to the Pharisees and Sadducees as "a brood of vipers" -- dismissing two entire religious sects with a single insult! So no, I wouldn't worry about you being too Jesus-y, because whatever else Jesus might have been, he was not inflexibly committed to inoffensiveness.

LV

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: Peace and Joy

08-04-2010 @ 4:11pm

Preach it!

by: Peace and Joy

08-04-2010 @ 4:11pm

Preach it!

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 4:35pm

"In fact our southern boarder has more natural impediments than the others. Any determined threat would look for the path of least resistance, not greatest. So an almost exclusive focus on the southern boarder can't be about security; it must have additional motivation, with the potential threat being equal on all sides."

This is pure sophistry. For all our differences with Canada, Canada itself is a more secure and prosperous nation, hence there is virtually no illegal immigration coming out of Canada. The physical barriers may be a bit more imposing to the south, but they are hardly uncrossable, and the smuggling rings are all in the south. Our concern is not the terrain, its the weak government and well-organized criminal enterprises that have built up along the southern border.

While I am sure that terror networks have looked for weaknesses along the US-Canada line, the weak law enforcement gives terrorists more opportunity to set up bases in the south, and the presence of smuggling operations gives them partners with knowledge of gaps and the methods of exploiting them.

In short: from Canada crossing the border is an operation -- a terrorist has to scout, plan, and execute his own border crossing. From Mexico it's a transaction -- pay a smuggler and arrange a date and time.

LV

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 4:35pm

"In fact our southern boarder has more natural impediments than the others. Any determined threat would look for the path of least resistance, not greatest. So an almost exclusive focus on the southern boarder can't be about security; it must have additional motivation, with the potential threat being equal on all sides."

This is pure sophistry. For all our differences with Canada, Canada itself is a more secure and prosperous nation, hence there is virtually no illegal immigration coming out of Canada. The physical barriers may be a bit more imposing to the south, but they are hardly uncrossable, and the smuggling rings are all in the south. Our concern is not the terrain, its the weak government and well-organized criminal enterprises that have built up along the southern border.

While I am sure that terror networks have looked for weaknesses along the US-Canada line, the weak law enforcement gives terrorists more opportunity to set up bases in the south, and the presence of smuggling operations gives them partners with knowledge of gaps and the methods of exploiting them.

In short: from Canada crossing the border is an operation -- a terrorist has to scout, plan, and execute his own border crossing. From Mexico it's a transaction -- pay a smuggler and arrange a date and time.

LV

by: BuckeyeDon

08-04-2010 @ 4:43pm

The fact remains that the only terrorist attempt to smuggle a bomb across our border came from the northern one, not the southern one.

by: BuckeyeDon

08-04-2010 @ 4:43pm

The fact remains that the only terrorist attempt to smuggle a bomb across our border came from the northern one, not the southern one.

by: BuckeyeDon

08-04-2010 @ 4:43pm

The fact remains that the only terrorist attempt to smuggle a bomb across our border came from the northern one, not the southern one.

by: BlueDeacon

08-04-2010 @ 6:25pm

One day I'd love to understand why conservatives seem so good at public relations, while liberals, at ridicule.

This really isn't true. It's just that the conservatives are excellent at telling people what they want to hear, and Beck and O'Reilly make their marks by ridiculing people personally.

by: BlueDeacon

08-04-2010 @ 6:25pm

One day I'd love to understand why conservatives seem so good at public relations, while liberals, at ridicule.

This really isn't true. It's just that the conservatives are excellent at telling people what they want to hear, and Beck and O'Reilly make their marks by ridiculing people personally.

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 6:53pm

Buckeye Don,

That's a total red herring. Who said a terrorist has to have a bomb on him when he crosses the border in order to count? You do realize that bombs can be constructed on this side of the border. Then there's the 9-11 plot, in which terrorists managed to do terrible damage without a single actual bomb.

LV

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 6:53pm

Buckeye Don,

That's a total red herring. Who said a terrorist has to have a bomb on him when he crosses the border in order to count? You do realize that bombs can be constructed on this side of the border. Then there's the 9-11 plot, in which terrorists managed to do terrible damage without a single actual bomb.

LV

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 6:53pm

Buckeye Don,

That's a total red herring. Who said a terrorist has to have a bomb on him when he crosses the border in order to count? You do realize that bombs can be constructed on this side of the border. Then there's the 9-11 plot, in which terrorists managed to do terrible damage without a single actual bomb.

LV

by: Patricia

08-04-2010 @ 6:54pm

I'm not sure I buy your examples of Stewart and Colbert as "liberals" - they're comedians and ridicule is their method. They will ridicule anyone, conservative or liberal, who provides fodder.

It would have been better if you had provided examples of liberals on the same level and with the same supposed credentials as O'Reilly and Beck.

by: Patricia

08-04-2010 @ 6:54pm

I'm not sure I buy your examples of Stewart and Colbert as "liberals" - they're comedians and ridicule is their method. They will ridicule anyone, conservative or liberal, who provides fodder.

It would have been better if you had provided examples of liberals on the same level and with the same supposed credentials as O'Reilly and Beck.

by: Patricia

08-04-2010 @ 6:54pm

I'm not sure I buy your examples of Stewart and Colbert as "liberals" - they're comedians and ridicule is their method. They will ridicule anyone, conservative or liberal, who provides fodder.

It would have been better if you had provided examples of liberals on the same level and with the same supposed credentials as O'Reilly and Beck.

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 7:03pm

"One day I'd love to understand why conservatives seem so good at public relations, while liberals, at ridicule."

Happy to explain that to you. Right now the left has become the masters of snide and contempt for the common man. This snideness, in the hands of the clever, makes for good comedy at times. Whether it is constructive over the long haul is another matter.

Meanwhile conservatives value people as individuals, and our philosophy is one that values the hopes and aspirations of people. Rather than imposing solutions from Washington on high, we seek to empower people to follow their own dreams, be they humble or grand. Since we attempt to relate to people as people, rather than as manifestations of some collective identity or interest group members or bearers of grievances. This allows to ask people such novel questions as "What would you like to do?" or "what do you expect from government?" without imposing a detailed program or policy agenda in advance.

Those are our secrets -- less contempt and snark, treat individuals as individuals.

As always, I'm happy to share,

LV

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 7:03pm

"One day I'd love to understand why conservatives seem so good at public relations, while liberals, at ridicule."

Happy to explain that to you. Right now the left has become the masters of snide and contempt for the common man. This snideness, in the hands of the clever, makes for good comedy at times. Whether it is constructive over the long haul is another matter.

Meanwhile conservatives value people as individuals, and our philosophy is one that values the hopes and aspirations of people. Rather than imposing solutions from Washington on high, we seek to empower people to follow their own dreams, be they humble or grand. Since we attempt to relate to people as people, rather than as manifestations of some collective identity or interest group members or bearers of grievances. This allows to ask people such novel questions as "What would you like to do?" or "what do you expect from government?" without imposing a detailed program or policy agenda in advance.

Those are our secrets -- less contempt and snark, treat individuals as individuals.

As always, I'm happy to share,

LV

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 7:03pm

"One day I'd love to understand why conservatives seem so good at public relations, while liberals, at ridicule."

Happy to explain that to you. Right now the left has become the masters of snide and contempt for the common man. This snideness, in the hands of the clever, makes for good comedy at times. Whether it is constructive over the long haul is another matter.

Meanwhile conservatives value people as individuals, and our philosophy is one that values the hopes and aspirations of people. Rather than imposing solutions from Washington on high, we seek to empower people to follow their own dreams, be they humble or grand. Since we attempt to relate to people as people, rather than as manifestations of some collective identity or interest group members or bearers of grievances. This allows to ask people such novel questions as "What would you like to do?" or "what do you expect from government?" without imposing a detailed program or policy agenda in advance.

Those are our secrets -- less contempt and snark, treat individuals as individuals.

As always, I'm happy to share,

LV

by: BlueDeacon

08-04-2010 @ 7:07pm

Meanwhile conservatives value people as individuals, and our philosophy is one that values the hopes and aspirations of people. Rather than imposing solutions from Washington on high, we seek to empower people to follow their own dreams, be they humble or grand.

Their history from the 1960s on puts the lie to that statement. In fact, they willingly destroy the dreams of those they feel are beneath them, not to mention those of their champions.

by: BlueDeacon

08-04-2010 @ 7:07pm

Meanwhile conservatives value people as individuals, and our philosophy is one that values the hopes and aspirations of people. Rather than imposing solutions from Washington on high, we seek to empower people to follow their own dreams, be they humble or grand.

Their history from the 1960s on puts the lie to that statement. In fact, they willingly destroy the dreams of those they feel are beneath them, not to mention those of their champions.

by: BlueDeacon

08-04-2010 @ 7:07pm

Meanwhile conservatives value people as individuals, and our philosophy is one that values the hopes and aspirations of people. Rather than imposing solutions from Washington on high, we seek to empower people to follow their own dreams, be they humble or grand.

Their history from the 1960s on puts the lie to that statement. In fact, they willingly destroy the dreams of those they feel are beneath them, not to mention those of their champions.

by: Patricia

08-04-2010 @ 7:11pm

"I will not exaggerate others' beliefs nor make unfounded prejudicial assumptions based on labels, categories, or stereotypes. I will always extend the benefit of the doubt."

By categorizing "the left" as "masters of snide and contempt for the common man", and maintaining "the right" "value people as individuals, and our philosophy is one that values the hopes and aspirations of people", I believe you are in violation of the COC.

Would you like to edit?

by: Patricia

08-04-2010 @ 7:11pm

"I will not exaggerate others' beliefs nor make unfounded prejudicial assumptions based on labels, categories, or stereotypes. I will always extend the benefit of the doubt."

By categorizing "the left" as "masters of snide and contempt for the common man", and maintaining "the right" "value people as individuals, and our philosophy is one that values the hopes and aspirations of people", I believe you are in violation of the COC.

Would you like to edit?

by: Patricia

08-04-2010 @ 7:11pm

"I will not exaggerate others' beliefs nor make unfounded prejudicial assumptions based on labels, categories, or stereotypes. I will always extend the benefit of the doubt."

By categorizing "the left" as "masters of snide and contempt for the common man", and maintaining "the right" "value people as individuals, and our philosophy is one that values the hopes and aspirations of people", I believe you are in violation of the COC.

Would you like to edit?

by: melvinbray

08-04-2010 @ 7:38pm

patricia, i understand your hesitance in embracing this particular example. i thought of using, keith olbermann and rachel maddow as examples, but their audiences are not as large as beck and o'reilly's. plus olbermann and maddow are as least as much journalists as they are social commentators. that's a difficult argument to make for o'reilly and beck.

colbert and stewart are admittedly commentators (satirists as opposed to comedians). i believe stewart self-identifies as a liberal (i could be wrong), while colbert trends liberal in his sympathies, though his character is ambiguously ultra-conservative and he parodies FOX. interestingly enough, a study done on viewers of the colbert show revealed that the more conservative one is the more s/he sees colbert's persona as unmitigatedly conservative. ultra-conservatives supposedly miss the irony in most his comments.

by: melvinbray

08-04-2010 @ 7:38pm

patricia, i understand your hesitance in embracing this particular example. i thought of using, keith olbermann and rachel maddow as examples, but their audiences are not as large as beck and o'reilly's. plus olbermann and maddow are as least as much journalists as they are social commentators. that's a difficult argument to make for o'reilly and beck.

colbert and stewart are admittedly commentators (satirists as opposed to comedians). i believe stewart self-identifies as a liberal (i could be wrong), while colbert trends liberal in his sympathies, though his character is ambiguously ultra-conservative and he parodies FOX. interestingly enough, a study done on viewers of the colbert show revealed that the more conservative one is the more s/he sees colbert's persona as unmitigatedly conservative. ultra-conservatives supposedly miss the irony in most his comments.

by: melvinbray

08-04-2010 @ 7:38pm

patricia, i understand your hesitance in embracing this particular example. i thought of using, keith olbermann and rachel maddow as examples, but their audiences are not as large as beck and o'reilly's. plus olbermann and maddow are as least as much journalists as they are social commentators. that's a difficult argument to make for o'reilly and beck.

colbert and stewart are admittedly commentators (satirists as opposed to comedians). i believe stewart self-identifies as a liberal (i could be wrong), while colbert trends liberal in his sympathies, though his character is ambiguously ultra-conservative and he parodies FOX. interestingly enough, a study done on viewers of the colbert show revealed that the more conservative one is the more s/he sees colbert's persona as unmitigatedly conservative. ultra-conservatives supposedly miss the irony in most his comments.

by: duhsciple

08-04-2010 @ 7:54pm

This article makes a profound point. If I am reading Melvin correctly, the love of Christ compels us to seek the best for our neighbor- food, clothing, heath, shelter, education, dignified work. So often we lose sight of this through the distortion of language. Bottom line- does God see "legal or illegal" or does God see "precious, beloved daughter and son"? I hear Melvin say, "Beloved child!"

Scanning the comments, I observe that we are quick to fall into labels- liberal, conservative, progressive, left, right... Conservatives care for individuals? The left does not? Let me ask, "Am I not a child of God?" I ask, "Does not my heart bleed for the hurting and the oppressed?" Or am I simply, "a liberal who does not care for individuals?" I assure you that I literally weep over the media conversation in our country.

I assure you: it is my real life encounter with specific individuals and their suffering which drives my passion for large solutions. In my life, I have offered charity to specific individuals. Yet I have discovered that there are large, impersonal, satanic systems of injustice. I cannot attempt to feel good about myself, helping particular individuals, and believe that is enough.

I have confidence that the vast majority posting here agree with the old song, "Red and yellow, black and white, we are precious in His sight, Jesus loves the little children of the world". And Jesus loves the children regardless of their (il)legality!

by: duhsciple

08-04-2010 @ 7:54pm

This article makes a profound point. If I am reading Melvin correctly, the love of Christ compels us to seek the best for our neighbor- food, clothing, heath, shelter, education, dignified work. So often we lose sight of this through the distortion of language. Bottom line- does God see "legal or illegal" or does God see "precious, beloved daughter and son"? I hear Melvin say, "Beloved child!"

Scanning the comments, I observe that we are quick to fall into labels- liberal, conservative, progressive, left, right... Conservatives care for individuals? The left does not? Let me ask, "Am I not a child of God?" I ask, "Does not my heart bleed for the hurting and the oppressed?" Or am I simply, "a liberal who does not care for individuals?" I assure you that I literally weep over the media conversation in our country.

I assure you: it is my real life encounter with specific individuals and their suffering which drives my passion for large solutions. In my life, I have offered charity to specific individuals. Yet I have discovered that there are large, impersonal, satanic systems of injustice. I cannot attempt to feel good about myself, helping particular individuals, and believe that is enough.

I have confidence that the vast majority posting here agree with the old song, "Red and yellow, black and white, we are precious in His sight, Jesus loves the little children of the world". And Jesus loves the children regardless of their (il)legality!

by: duhsciple

08-04-2010 @ 7:54pm

This article makes a profound point. If I am reading Melvin correctly, the love of Christ compels us to seek the best for our neighbor- food, clothing, heath, shelter, education, dignified work. So often we lose sight of this through the distortion of language. Bottom line- does God see "legal or illegal" or does God see "precious, beloved daughter and son"? I hear Melvin say, "Beloved child!"

Scanning the comments, I observe that we are quick to fall into labels- liberal, conservative, progressive, left, right... Conservatives care for individuals? The left does not? Let me ask, "Am I not a child of God?" I ask, "Does not my heart bleed for the hurting and the oppressed?" Or am I simply, "a liberal who does not care for individuals?" I assure you that I literally weep over the media conversation in our country.

I assure you: it is my real life encounter with specific individuals and their suffering which drives my passion for large solutions. In my life, I have offered charity to specific individuals. Yet I have discovered that there are large, impersonal, satanic systems of injustice. I cannot attempt to feel good about myself, helping particular individuals, and believe that is enough.

I have confidence that the vast majority posting here agree with the old song, "Red and yellow, black and white, we are precious in His sight, Jesus loves the little children of the world". And Jesus loves the children regardless of their (il)legality!

by: Patricia

08-04-2010 @ 8:03pm

I appreciate your response!

Yes, it is true it's very difficult to find equivalents to O'Reilly and Beck on the left.

I do wish we could get past the "illegal immigrant" distraction - it's really preventing us from coming together and developing a reasonable, compassionate immigration POLICY.

by: Patricia

08-04-2010 @ 8:03pm

I appreciate your response!

Yes, it is true it's very difficult to find equivalents to O'Reilly and Beck on the left.

I do wish we could get past the "illegal immigrant" distraction - it's really preventing us from coming together and developing a reasonable, compassionate immigration POLICY.

by: Patricia

08-04-2010 @ 8:03pm

I appreciate your response!

Yes, it is true it's very difficult to find equivalents to O'Reilly and Beck on the left.

I do wish we could get past the "illegal immigrant" distraction - it's really preventing us from coming together and developing a reasonable, compassionate immigration POLICY.

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 8:06pm

Patricia,

Here's a little something else I found, from our good friend Blue Deacon:

"It's just that the conservatives are excellent at telling people what they want to hear"

Tell you what, I'll edit when he does. Which will be never.

And to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure I'd want him to. He's entitled to his opinion of us.

LV

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 8:06pm

Patricia,

Here's a little something else I found, from our good friend Blue Deacon:

"It's just that the conservatives are excellent at telling people what they want to hear"

Tell you what, I'll edit when he does. Which will be never.

And to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure I'd want him to. He's entitled to his opinion of us.

LV

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 8:06pm

Patricia,

Here's a little something else I found, from our good friend Blue Deacon:

"It's just that the conservatives are excellent at telling people what they want to hear"

Tell you what, I'll edit when he does. Which will be never.

And to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure I'd want him to. He's entitled to his opinion of us.

LV

by: duhsciple

08-04-2010 @ 8:17pm

"Tell you what, I'll edit when he does. Which will be never."

Love believes all things! Therefore, let us have hope. Let us not give up on people. Let us not write them off. Furthermore, love does not keep score of wrongs. Therefore, let us see one another as friends.

What do you think? Am I being too Jesus-y?

by: duhsciple

08-04-2010 @ 8:17pm

"Tell you what, I'll edit when he does. Which will be never."

Love believes all things! Therefore, let us have hope. Let us not give up on people. Let us not write them off. Furthermore, love does not keep score of wrongs. Therefore, let us see one another as friends.

What do you think? Am I being too Jesus-y?

by: duhsciple

08-04-2010 @ 8:17pm

"Tell you what, I'll edit when he does. Which will be never."

Love believes all things! Therefore, let us have hope. Let us not give up on people. Let us not write them off. Furthermore, love does not keep score of wrongs. Therefore, let us see one another as friends.

What do you think? Am I being too Jesus-y?

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 8:40pm

Duhsciple

Love also does not multiply grievances. I was not particularly hurt by the good Deacon's comments, and see no need to have them edited.

Jesus referred to the Pharisees and Sadducees as "a brood of vipers" -- dismissing two entire religious sects with a single insult! So no, I wouldn't worry about you being too Jesus-y, because whatever else Jesus might have been, he was not inflexibly committed to inoffensiveness.

LV

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 8:40pm

Duhsciple

Love also does not multiply grievances. I was not particularly hurt by the good Deacon's comments, and see no need to have them edited.

Jesus referred to the Pharisees and Sadducees as "a brood of vipers" -- dismissing two entire religious sects with a single insult! So no, I wouldn't worry about you being too Jesus-y, because whatever else Jesus might have been, he was not inflexibly committed to inoffensiveness.

LV

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 8:40pm

Duhsciple

Love also does not multiply grievances. I was not particularly hurt by the good Deacon's comments, and see no need to have them edited.

Jesus referred to the Pharisees and Sadducees as "a brood of vipers" -- dismissing two entire religious sects with a single insult! So no, I wouldn't worry about you being too Jesus-y, because whatever else Jesus might have been, he was not inflexibly committed to inoffensiveness.

LV

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 8:51pm

Since we're talking about not taking pot-shots, there's this from LaVonne Neff about Missouri's passing a referendum that supposedly exempts the state's residents from mandatory participation in Obamacare:

"Good luck, Missouri, if you end up having to take care of your residents all on your own because the Center for Disease Control just released a study saying you are among the fattest states in the union."

Like I said: snide.

LV

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 8:51pm

Since we're talking about not taking pot-shots, there's this from LaVonne Neff about Missouri's passing a referendum that supposedly exempts the state's residents from mandatory participation in Obamacare:

"Good luck, Missouri, if you end up having to take care of your residents all on your own because the Center for Disease Control just released a study saying you are among the fattest states in the union."

Like I said: snide.

LV

by: Lord_Voldemort

08-04-2010 @ 8:51pm

Since we're talking about not taking pot-shots, there's this from LaVonne Neff about Missouri's passing a referendum that supposedly exempts the state's residents from mandatory participation in Obamacare:

"Good luck, Missouri, if you end up having to take care of your residents all on your own because the Center for Disease Control just released a study saying you are among the fattest states in the union."

Like I said: snide.

LV

by: titopoet

08-04-2010 @ 10:12pm

I do see a level of snideness increasing throughout the political discourse and it covers the all poles of the political spectrum. How I long for the days of Neuhbur brothers, William Buckley, and the era when wit was the primary form of expression. Now, no matter what the topic (political, cultural, sports, entertainment etc) wit has been replaced by meanspirited sarcasm. No side is innocent of cruelty.

by: titopoet

08-04-2010 @ 10:12pm

I do see a level of snideness increasing throughout the political discourse and it covers the all poles of the political spectrum. How I long for the days of Neuhbur brothers, William Buckley, and the era when wit was the primary form of expression. Now, no matter what the topic (political, cultural, sports, entertainment etc) wit has been replaced by meanspirited sarcasm. No side is innocent of cruelty.

by: titopoet

08-04-2010 @ 10:12pm

I do see a level of snideness increasing throughout the political discourse and it covers the all poles of the political spectrum. How I long for the days of Neuhbur brothers, William Buckley, and the era when wit was the primary form of expression. Now, no matter what the topic (political, cultural, sports, entertainment etc) wit has been replaced by meanspirited sarcasm. No side is innocent of cruelty.

by: kansasmennonite

08-04-2010 @ 10:36pm

the lord god almighty said:"Meanwhile conservatives value people as individuals, and our philosophy is one that values the hopes and aspirations of people. Rather than imposing solutions from Washington on high, we seek to empower people to follow their own dreams, be they humble or grand. Since we attempt to relate to people as people, rather than as manifestations of some collective identity or interest group members or bearers of grievances. This allows to ask people such novel questions as "What would you like to do?" or "what do you expect from government?" without imposing a detailed program or policy agenda in advance."

Can anyone say proposition 8?

by: kansasmennonite

08-04-2010 @ 10:36pm

the lord god almighty said:"Meanwhile conservatives value people as individuals, and our philosophy is one that values the hopes and aspirations of people. Rather than imposing solutions from Washington on high, we seek to empower people to follow their own dreams, be they humble or grand. Since we attempt to relate to people as people, rather than as manifestations of some collective identity or interest group members or bearers of grievances. This allows to ask people such novel questions as "What would you like to do?" or "what do you expect from government?" without imposing a detailed program or policy agenda in advance."

Can anyone say proposition 8?