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Martin Luther King Jr. Was a Social Justice Christian

This coming Saturday, August 28 will mark the 47th anniversary of the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom, where King delivered his famous "I Have a Dream Speech." Glenn Beck has chosen this day to deliver his own speech from the steps of the Lincoln memorial.

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On that same morning I will be speaking at the dedication ceremony of a work of public art that commemorates the words and legacy of King. It is not a protest. Rather, it is an opportunity to reflect on what this great American had to say and is still saying to our country today. Whenever we take the time to collectively consider what that dream was, we all benefit.

My picture has graced the Glenn Beck blackboard a number of times over the past year. I am quite sure that if the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. were alive today, he would have been on Glenn Beck's blackboard long before I would have ever been considered. That is because Martin Luther King Jr. was clearly a Social Justice Christian -- the term and people that Beck constantly derides. If the Christians of King's era had listened to Glenn Beck, they would have been forced to walk out on MLK's "I Have a Dream" speech. If they were to heed his advice to turn in social justice pastors to the church authorities, they all would have had to turn in Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

On December 18, 1963, at Western Michigan University, King gave a speech whose topic was "social justice and the emerging new age." If Glenn Beck had been there, I don't doubt that he would have gotten up and walked out as he has told his viewers to do if they hear "social justice" from their pastors. It might be foolish, but I hope that as Glenn Beck prepares for his rally on Saturday, he takes the time to read this speech and think about what it says. In it King explained why for justice to be just it can not only be individual, but must also be social:

"All I'm saying is simply this, that all life is interrelated, that somehow we're caught in an inescapable network of mutuality tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly affects all indirectly. For some strange reason, I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality."

This is why in the Old Testament, God commands his people to be charitable but also to work for justice. The people of God are to give offerings of their own free will, but there are also laws that show the government has a legitimate role to play. As a Christian, I believe that Jesus changes people's hearts and lives, and that is something that government policy can never compete with. But, I also believe that personal charity does not do the work of justice. Here is how King put it in that same speech:

"Now the other myth that gets around is the idea that legislation cannot really solve the problem and that it has no great role to play in this period of social change because you've got to change the heart and you can't change the heart through legislation. You can't legislate morals. The job must be done through education and religion. Well, there's half-truth involved here. Certainly, if the problem is to be solved then in the final sense, hearts must be changed. Religion and education must play a great role in changing the heart. But we must go on to say that while it may be true that morality cannot be legislated, behavior can be regulated. It may be true that the law cannot change the heart but it can restrain the heartless. It may be true that the law cannot make a man love me but it can keep him from lynching me and I think that is pretty important, also. So there is a need for executive orders. There is a need for judicial decrees. There is a need for civil rights legislation on the local scale within states and on the national scale from the federal government."

King recognized misunderstandings like this as obstacles to social justice. But, ultimately he was hopeful:

"I think with all of these challenges being met and with all of the work, and determination going on, we will be able to go this additional distance and achieve the ideal, the goal of the new age, the age of social justice."

Yes, King named social justice as the goal of the new age. This is why so many Christians were willing to turn themselves in to Glenn Beck as Social Justice Christians. It was not difficult for them to choose between King's interpretation of the gospel and Beck's interpretation that I know some in his own Mormon church are not comfortable with

Did King believe that the role of government was only to eliminate discrimination? No. As he wrote in "Showdown for Nonviolence" in 1968, it played a role in ending poverty too:

"We will place the problems of the poor at the seat of government of the wealthiest nation in the history of mankind. If that power refuses to acknowledge its debt to the poor, it would have failed to live up to its promise to insure 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness to its citizens.'" (From A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches of Martin Luther King Jr.)

Now, Beck and I do have one area of significant agreement. When he spoke about the civil rights movement in context of the debate around health care he said, "Who were the civil rights marchers? They were people with profound belief in God." This is true. Both Beck and I would probably agree that the most powerful social movements are rooted in deep faith. But he finished that thought saying, "They were trying to set things right. They weren't crying for social justice, they were crying out for equal justice." Beck's mistake is to somehow think that the two can be separated.

Beck has lied again and again about me and so many others; it saddens me to hear him now try to rewrite the legacy of Martin Luther King. When you do the work of social justice there are always criticisms, detractors, and those who will slander and lie. But, in the words of Dr. King in 1961 to the AFL-CIO:

"Yes, before the victory is won, some will be misunderstood. Some will be called Reds and Communists merely because they believe in economic justice and the brotherhood of man. But we shall overcome."

Glenn Beck has continually called me, Sojourners, and many others "communists, socialists, and Marxists" because we call for "economic and social justice." If he were an honest man, he would have to include Dr. King as well.

But King must have been thinking about the Glenn Becks of his time when he concluded his speech at Western Michigan University:

"In spite of the difficulties of this hour, I am convinced that we have the resources to make the American Dream a reality. I am convinced of this because I believe Carlyle is right: 'No lie can live forever.' I am convinced of this because I believe William Cullen Bryant is right: 'Truth pressed to earth will rise again.' I am convinced of this because I think James Russell Lowell is right: 'Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne; Yet that scaffold sways the future, And behind the dim unknown, Standeth God within the shadow, Keeping watch above His own.' Somehow with this faith, we will be able to adjourn the councils of despair and bring new life into the dark chambers of pessimism. With this faith, we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation to a beautiful symphony of brotherhood. This will be a great day. This will be the day when all of God's children, black [people] and white [people], Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual, 'Free at last! Free at last! Thank God, Almighty, we are free at last!'"

portrait-jim-wallisJim Wallis is the author of Rediscovering Values: On Wall Street, Main Street, and Your Street -- A Moral Compass for the New Economy, and CEO of Sojourners. He blogs at www.godspolitics.com.


<strong><img title="portrait-jim-wallis" src="/sites/default/files/images/portrait-jim-wallis.jpg" alt="portrait-jim-wallis" width="60" height="73" /><em>Jim Wallis</em></strong><em> is the author of </em><a href="http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=special.RV&amp;item=RV_order">Rediscovering Values: On Wall Street, Main Street, and Your Street -- A Moral Compass for the New Economy</a><em>, and CEO of </em><a href="http://www.sojo.net/">Sojourners</a><em>. He blogs at </em><a href="http://www.godspolitics.com/"><em>www.godspolitics.com</em></a><em>.</em>
<strong><a href="http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=sojomail.subscribe&amp;source=web_blog_content">+Click here to get e-mail updates from Jim Wallis</a></strong>

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by: wjgreen314

08-28-2010 @ 11:42pm

Let's say you're correct. How then did Commander-in-Chief Obama get awarded the same prize? Our freedom in America and on this blog to exercise our liberties and rights is vouchsafed by Sarah Palin's own 20-year old warrior son, and the millions of warriors with whom he defends with his life, limb and honor our relative safety and security. If we can't honor those who VOLUNTEER to enter harm's way on behalf of those of us who don't or can't, then we're not an honorable people and know no virtue -- quintessential for the experiment in liberty governed of, by and for the people which is the United States of America. I thank God Sarah and many other mothers and fathers reared brave warriors to fight to protect our natural, God-given rights and the freedoms fought for and won by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., and many of his and my ilk!

by: squeaky

08-31-2010 @ 11:53pm

Apparently you aren't going to answer my question. I'll take that as a no, then.

by: wjgreen314

08-31-2010 @ 9:56pm

The extremely well respected and highly trusted Wall Street Journal wrote the following about which event?

"One would not be able to find a more polite crowd at a political convention, certainly not at a professional sporting event, probably not even at an opera. In fact, judging by the behavior of the attendees followi...ng the event, you'd have a tough time finding churches in which people display more patience as others make their way to the exits. This army of well-mannered folks . . . seemed comprised mainly of people who had once marched in the U.S. Army or other military branch, or at least had a family member who had . . . The day was largely devoted to expressions of gratitude for the sacrifices of U.S. soldiers, for great men of American history like the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., and for God . . . various attendees wore t-shirts noting that they were "Not violent" or "Non-violent." For other participants, there was no need for an explicit message. Relaxed young parents felt comfortable enough to push toddlers in strollers through the crowded areas along the memorial's reflecting pool. Not only was the rally akin to a "huge church picnic" . . . but one had to wonder if the over-achievers in this crowd actually left the area in better shape than they found it. After the event, walking from the Lincoln Memorial's reflecting pool through Constitution Gardens, this reporter scanned 360 degrees and could not see a scrap of trash anywhere. Participants and volunteers had collected all their refuse and left it piled neatly in bags around the public garbage cans . . . A principal theme of the day was that attendees should restore the country by making improvements in their own lives-be the change you wish to see in the world, as Gandhi once put it. Most of the participants were strictly amateurs in the business of activism. For many, it was their first appearance at a public demonstration . . . While (key-note speaker) admits that he's part entertainer and prone to over-the-top comments, his followers appear to be sincerely responding to his message that Americans need to cling to their best traditions . . . (The key-note speaker's) ability to draw this many people to Washington may suggest enormous gains for Republicans come the fall . . . Between Saturday's crowd . . . and the tea partiers agitating for limited government, we may be witnessing the rebuilding of the Reagan coalition, the "fusion" of religious and economic conservatives that political theorist Frank Meyer once endorsed. Reagan always believed that the Republican Party was the natural home for this movement, but GOP leaders in Washington need to prove they are worthy of it."

a. President Obama's inauguration
b. Rev. Al Sharpton's Reclaim the Dream March
c. Restoring Honor 8/28 Rally
d. The Rally to Re-elect Nancy Pelosi
e. The Rally to Re-elect Harry Reid
f. President Obama's recent Katrina speech in New Orleans

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527487...

by: grace2us

08-28-2010 @ 11:26pm

Republicans and Libertarians, are you not concerned with social and/or economic justice?

I heard a statistic from a realiable source that stated that the 4 richest Americans have more money than the 60 poorest countries (but have been unable to find the source of the research.)

In an article entitled, "Wealth, Income, and Power" by G. William Domhoff (September 2005 - updated August 2010), he writes,

"In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.7%." Based on the research of economist Edward N. Wolff at New York University (2010).

I can understand that those who have the wealth may feel a bit greedy about paying more taxes but this shows that capitolism is no longer working for us and a more fair way of taxation is needed.

by: wjgreen314

08-31-2010 @ 11:49pm

Michele Malkin or Karl Marx can report upon a decision by a court. If they record the court's decision accurately it matters NOT whether Marx or Malkin reports it. Why do you fail to see this truthful maxim!

by: squeaky

08-31-2010 @ 11:45pm

I think most of us who tithe do tithe as much as Beck, unless he is tithing significantly more than 10%.

by: presbyseminarychick

08-29-2010 @ 1:07am

I would argue that Jesus most certainly did not COMMAND that the poor always exist. I believe the point Jesus was making was that the poor WOULD always exist because humanity seems somehow incapable of giving up their greed and selfishness and actually create a fair society. That is why the CHRISTIAN community was to be so radically different because they were the ones who were supposed to model egalitarian practices, as they did in the book of Acts, if you care to read it sometime...

by: squeaky

08-31-2010 @ 11:06pm

""True unity comes when you can reach the person you don't agree with and love them as Christ did, work with them, and consider their voice valid and worth listening to.

Did Beck do any of that? Did you feel inspired to go to coffee with that person with whom you disagree, get to know each other, share your perspectives, and learn from each other with an open mind?""

by: Charles Kiker

06-20-2011 @ 8:28am

LinkedIn

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This is a reminder that on June 7, Charles Kiker sent you an invitation to become part of his or her professional network at LinkedIn.

Follow this link to accept Charles Kiker's invitation.

https://www.linkedin.com/e/ur5...

Signing up is free and takes less than a minute.

by: PASTOR JEFF

08-28-2010 @ 1:00pm

I believe that Glenn Beck has the right to build a mosque on the National mall but that, given the sensitivities and emotional attachments of social justice Christians, he should build it on a different day than the 28August, like maybe in February-black history month.

by: squeaky

08-31-2010 @ 11:05pm

Why bring him up when he wasn't part of this discussion?

by: Charles Kiker

06-20-2011 @ 8:28am

LinkedIn

------------

This is a reminder that on June 7, Charles Kiker sent you an invitation to become part of his or her professional network at LinkedIn.

Follow this link to accept Charles Kiker's invitation.

https://www.linkedin.com/e/-u5...

Signing up is free and takes less than a minute.

by: wjgreen314

08-31-2010 @ 10:55pm

Yes, I mentioned the hate-filled Ed Schultz. I'm somebody!

by: Remnant Culture

09-01-2010 @ 12:24am

Well said, but will never be noted by Wallis. Rather than accept his differences with Beck on HOW to further social justice, Wallis continues to pretend that Beck just plainly hates poor people. In this post, he extends the implication to include other races. Give it up, Jim.

by: wjgreen314

08-31-2010 @ 10:54pm

What questions, exactly?

by: squeaky

09-01-2010 @ 12:22am

Did he? Please provide links to speeches or clips from his show during which Beck encourages his listeners to value the perspectives of those they disagree with. I'd love to hear him encourage people that varied perspectives and viewpoints are necessary to tackle the many complex issues we face. I look forward to your links.

Yes, I have had tea or coffee with tea partiers...even stayed in their homes as I visited them.

by: JesusWasARevolutionary

08-28-2010 @ 2:12pm

My Lord! Are there any Christians on this thread???? May God have mercy!

by: wjgreen314

08-31-2010 @ 10:54pm

Imagine how much Glenn Beck gives given that he tithes! How many of you tithe as much as Glenn?! He began when he was poor and still does so now that he's relatively rich! Gloria a Dios!

by: RSSS20

08-29-2010 @ 2:50am

What's with the sarcasm? Would Jesus use such language?

by: squeaky

09-01-2010 @ 12:19am

Primarily because I am not a man.

by: squeaky

08-31-2010 @ 10:26pm

Guess you are not going to answer my other question, then.

by: RSSS20

08-29-2010 @ 2:48am

"They choose the military out of lack of opportunity."
That is incorrect.

Volunteering in this context, means signing up to serve in the military, as opposed to being drafted and/or required by law to complete military service, which is how other nations typically build their armed forces.

by: squeaky

09-01-2010 @ 12:19am

I guess you miss my point. Jesus said pretty clearly that those who give out of their poverty give more than those who give out of their wealth.

I"m not sure why you are venerating his wealth as much as you do. Why does that impress you so much? It seems you value that pretty highly, but I see no Gospel justification for such a veneration. Please explain.

by: BlueDeacon

08-28-2010 @ 4:17pm

The real problem is that many American Christians don't subscribe to a consistently Christian worldview in that we focus on the "American Dream" and then add Jesus to that (which is why evangelicalism in this country is so weak spiritually). Thing is, is that the biblical Jesus won't long put up with being a value-added commodity and long ago demanded that we forsake everything to follow Him.

by: squeaky

08-31-2010 @ 10:24pm

Has anyone mentioned Ed Schultz here?

BTW--still waiting for you to answer my other questions.

by: PASTOR JEFF

08-29-2010 @ 3:50am

1. What do you find as sarcastic? 2. Yes and He did.

by: squeaky

08-28-2010 @ 4:12pm

Saturday Lament:

Indeed. I can't agree with you more. We are, unfortunately, all knuckleheads, and that is our default mode. I try to remember that when I get frustrated.

But I do wish that at least on a Christian blog, we could actually disagree without demonizing each other. And I really wish Christians wouldn't fall for deceitful, divisive rhetoric that seeks to tear apart, rather than build. The former is the way of the world, not the Kingdom of God. And I also have been pretty heavy-hearted lately, too. Thinking a lot about getting away from politics and political discussion. Not sure how beneficial it is to my soul.

I've certainly seen worse on blogs, though. Maybe the world will see something different here just for the sake of being a matter of degrees. I'd rather the difference be far more glaring and obvious, however.

Ah, but, unfortunately, there is nothing new under the sun. This has been going on from the moment the humanity (and even the church) was born. How does God puts up with us.

by: squeaky

08-31-2010 @ 10:23pm

So, does this mean you would be for the legalization of marijuana and other drugs?

by: RobNoVa

08-29-2010 @ 6:00am

Not only that, but the Canadians were smart enough to avoid the housing bubble by maintaining rigid standards for mortgage approval. Also, the gentleman (who's name I forget) that shepherded 'socialist' health care for Canada is viewed as a national hero there. So to those who keep crying Socialist!, I say WHY NOT! These people (Beck et. al.) equate socialism and fascism but socialism is an economic system while fascism is political. I always get a kick out of people (Tea Party) who say things like: Keep your socialist government hands off my Social Security (chuckles).

by: RSSS20

08-28-2010 @ 4:11pm

I wonder if God's Politics is an oxymoron...since ours' divergent politics seem to keep us from the unity Jesus wanted in his prayer in John 17. It probably breaks God's heart.
I trust that everyone who posts on these forums is a follower of Jesus, unless he/she specifically states that that is not the case.

by: wjgreen314

08-31-2010 @ 10:23pm

500,000 people caused ZERO CHAOS on 8/28. In fact, we left the mall cleaner and more orderly than we found it. Read the WSJ article below!

by: RobNoVa

08-29-2010 @ 5:47am

Aww come on daviontosh.. Welfare as we know it was practically ended during the Clinton administration. I fail to see the reasoning behind crossing your arms and refusing to help people who have, by now fault of their own fallen onto bad times. I certainly hope that you don't, for instance, fall prey to a catastrophic illness and wind up losing everything.

by: JesusWasARevolutionary

08-28-2010 @ 3:43pm

@ "squeaky"...

Oh don't get me wrong, squeaky, I believe that healthy, SPIRIT-FILLED debate - that is based on the WORD and not our "deceitfully wicked" hearts - is necessary. However, the lack of compassion, anger, and animosity that seems to be resounding on this and other similar threads is disheartening. The last time I read Galatians 5, I saw none of these listed as the fruit of the Spirit, which is why I conclude that much of the tenor of this discussion isn't Christ-like, nor Sprit-filled. I'm not judging anyone's eternity. But when non-believers observe (or read) our words and actions, especially those presented here, they stand to get a picture of Christians who are "so unlike [our] Christ"!

At what point do we set aside politicism, name-calling, and focus on what matters most -- SOULS BEING SAVED! Please point out to me, what, if anything, on any of these posts, would lead ANYONE to want to give their life to Christ? Isn't that what we've been commissioned to do? Isn't that why we exist - to bring glory to God? Please show me what on these posts, brings any sort of glory to the Father and I will stand corrected. If I were a non-believer, I'd sprint in the opposite direction!!

My heart is heavy, because we as believers are living in a time when SO many are dying without knowing Him; so many are suffering, in need of the healing and deliverance that can only come through Him. Jesus Christ saw PAST what was on the surface and dealt with people's spiritual needs and yearnings. He didn't ignore what they were going through, but He recognized that the only true solution to EVERY problem, social ill, or controversy was a relationship with the Father and He CONSTANTLY pointed people to Him...

Why can't we be more like Jesus? That's all I'm sayin...

by: wjgreen314

08-31-2010 @ 10:20pm

Here's Far-Leftist radical Ed Schultz, "In my bones, in my very soul! In my Heart! I want to kick Fox's ass! I want to drive them into the ground! I want to spike the ball! I want to kick 'em in the teeth on the way back to the huddle! And then I want to turn around and lift my leg on 'em (and piss on them)! Because that's all they're worth." Ed Shchutz lousy-ratings radio show, August 27, 2010!

Where's the TRUE anger and disgrace!

by: squeaky

09-01-2010 @ 2:00am

It would be nice if he follows up his speech with action, as in, if he stops making every single molehill into the mountain of Marxism, Facism, or Naziism. If instead of driving wedges he strives for unity and diversity of thoughts and ideas, then I will believe he means what he says in this speech.

I'd have to ask, if he thinks God is the answer, what would he say of someone who does not think God is the answer? Would he honor and listen to the perspective of an atheist? Would he honor and respect the perspective of one who thinks government must play a role in tackling the issues our nation faces? Would he give ear to that perspective? Would he try to work with that person? Did this speech inspire you to consider others opinions and perspective with an open heart and mind?

I look forward to your links showing a changed life. I look forward to seeing him as someone who doesn't demonize those who disagree with him. Someone who is capable of listening and considering other opinions without painting such opinions as the first step down the slippery slope to Marxism or Socialism or whatever. Someone who values the perspectives of others because they help him see issues in a way he hasn't seen them before. Someone who welcomes, asks for, and encourages his listeners to do the same.

Unfortunately, quite honestly, so far all I've ever seen him do is create wedges. I'd love to see him strive to build unity. Someone else here (I think it was Blue Deacon) said his speech would have had more sincerity had he repented of his part in creating wedges. I'd have liked to hear that too. But, perhaps this is his opportunity to prove me wrong. I hope he does because our nation doesn't need this division.

by: squeaky

08-28-2010 @ 3:17pm

Yes, actually. But we just don't all agree or see things differently. Hard to do, but it is best not to judge one's eternal soul on the words they speak on a faceless, nameless blog.

by: wjgreen314

08-31-2010 @ 10:10pm

I know of Barton's scholarship. Where's yours? Have you read the primary documents he has? If you haven't you are seriously misguided and willfully ignorant! But if you don't have time to read as many documents as he has you can read his books in which he quotes the original documents copiously! Ignorance of the facts, though they be disdained, is no proof that the facts are anything other than what they are! C'mon, don't confuse your opinions formed by either willful or benign ignorance with historical truth!

by: BlueDeacon

09-01-2010 @ 1:56am

And you have the gall to complain to me about bias? BTW, they said the same thing about Bill Clinton, every bit as loudly, but he was reelected. As I knew he would be.

But here's the issue: This represents a major hijacking of this thread, which suggests that MLK Jr. would have been on Glenn Beck's hit list were they contemporaries. Sojourners, on the other hand, is much, much closer to the mark.

by: dlowen

08-29-2010 @ 7:20am

Exactly what in Dr. King's writings points to this belief that the government has no role to play in ensuring economic justice? What leads you to this conclusion that his ministry was to reconcile people via the church? Why would he ever leave the pulpit if this was the case? What did the framers intend to accomplish in establishing this nation? How about letting them tell us in their own words?We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

by: BlueDeacon

09-01-2010 @ 1:56am

Oh, yes, it does -- because they can "spin" it anyway they want. I stopped listening to Christian media back in the 1990s because I recognized just what they were doing; I refuse to watch one second of the Fox News Channel for that very reason. Now, if the New York Times or my paper did the same thing I would listen because they report first and opine (if necessary) later.

by: duhsciple

08-28-2010 @ 4:57pm

Which of the following is a Kingdom of God value, embodied by Jesus:

a. getting ahead of the pack?
b. getting there together?

Who is teaching the "a" answer? Who is teaching the "b" answer?

by: wjgreen314

09-01-2010 @ 12:12am

George Washington was wealthy. He also had first hand experience leading a victorious army with far fewer provisions than our armies have currently, against a superior fighting force.

by: dlowen

08-29-2010 @ 7:08am

So are you saying that there should be no taxes? Can't be taking anything "by force" so each person should be free to make whatever they can however they can and give only what they want to the running of the society. Jesus quite clearly said when asked about the issue of taxes, "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's." The government mints money to facilitate the running of the economy. Jesus said to give it back even to an empire which gives no choice in governance. Now if you're saying that meant "willingly and joyfully" give whatever the government says you owe, OK then go and do likewise.

by: BlueDeacon

09-01-2010 @ 1:50am

Wrong. Beck doesn't really give a hoot about social justice and neither do any of his followers -- because "doing justice" according to Micah 6:8 often means giving up power, which is the last thing they want.

by: JesusWasARevolutionary

08-28-2010 @ 4:54pm

Amen BlueDeacon!

by: wjgreen314

09-01-2010 @ 12:08am

Glenn can buy his way into heaven only to the extent you can. But in ABSOLUTE terms someone who gives 10% of $1,000,000 gives more than the person who gives 10% of $50,000.

by: wjgreen314

09-01-2010 @ 1:10am

I was NOT refuting what liberalinlove said. Not everything I post is a refutation.

by: liberalinlove

09-01-2010 @ 12:08am

Now I know you are spoofing. The framers knew how to run our country because of why? You do realize that many of those who fought in the revolution did so at the behest of wealthy businessmen that would benefit most financially from breaking away from England. It wasn't the common man that necessarily joined with any enthusiasm. Yet ringleaders who opposed fighting the British were shot and thereby subduing those who disagreed.

Our little infant country could have easily been another one of England's colonies. Today it is not unlike Canada in much of its human rights and social agendas. Is it falling apart? Is it falling apart because it isn't following England's virtues and policies, or the church of Englands, or whoever is to blame for Canada's present day government.

There is a simplicity that comes with propaganda meant to organize and fuel fear.

God's kingdom can be carried out anywhere we choose to live it. God is no respecter of people.

In the bible His people were led into captivity for two reasons.

1. They failed to love God with all their hearts souls and minds, serving other Gods.
2. They failed to care for widows, orphans, strangers in their midst and to seek after justice for those who could not speak for themselves.

If our country is heading into captivity for biblical reasons, maybe the bible could be the source for the reason, not some home schooling text book.

by: wjgreen314

09-01-2010 @ 1:08am

I agree with you regarding what Jesus said about the widow's mite. I don't venerate his wealth; I rejoice in the fact that he gives so much in nominal terms vis-a-vis you and I. I'm glad the rich give so much.

by: wjgreen314

09-01-2010 @ 12:05am

You're not me and I tread where other men fear to. Why don't you?

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by: tseries

08-26-2010 @ 4:57pm

Mr. Wallis -

I'm assuming that my posting will be removed by the Sojourner censores. I find it strange that you would attack the veracity of Glenn Beck when you don't want to seem to come clean on you affiliation with billionaire George Soros. Just how much money has Sojourners accepted from Mr. Soros, and what influence did Mr. Soros buy with that money? Before anyone cries foul and calls me a slanderer, do a simple google search of Soros and Wallis and you will see what I am talking about.

by: tseries

08-26-2010 @ 4:57pm

Mr. Wallis -

I'm assuming that my posting will be removed by the Sojourner censores. I find it strange that you would attack the veracity of Glenn Beck when you don't want to seem to come clean on you affiliation with billionaire George Soros. Just how much money has Sojourners accepted from Mr. Soros, and what influence did Mr. Soros buy with that money? Before anyone cries foul and calls me a slanderer, do a simple google search of Soros and Wallis and you will see what I am talking about.

by: kevinptr

08-26-2010 @ 5:42pm

first of all glenn beck is against social justice,which dr. king was for.i think its a disgrace of glenn beck and his crazies,disrespecting dr.kings legacy.

by: kevinptr

08-26-2010 @ 5:42pm

first of all glenn beck is against social justice,which dr. king was for.i think its a disgrace of glenn beck and his crazies,disrespecting dr.kings legacy.

by: tseries

08-26-2010 @ 5:54pm

Would disagree that Mr. Beck is against social justice, just the Sojourner definition thereof.

by: tseries

08-26-2010 @ 5:54pm

Would disagree that Mr. Beck is against social justice, just the Sojourner definition thereof.

by: BlueDeacon

08-26-2010 @ 5:59pm

Irrelevant to the subject at hand.

by: BlueDeacon

08-26-2010 @ 5:59pm

Irrelevant to the subject at hand.

by: BlueDeacon

08-26-2010 @ 6:00pm

What would he say to or about MLK Jr.?

by: BlueDeacon

08-26-2010 @ 6:00pm

What would he say to or about MLK Jr.?

by: kevinptr

08-26-2010 @ 6:33pm

mr. beck has on many occasions that social justice is a communist and nazi thing.

by: kevinptr

08-26-2010 @ 6:33pm

mr. beck has on many occasions that social justice is a communist and nazi thing.

by: duhsciple

08-26-2010 @ 6:45pm

What do you think about the life, work, and writings of Dr. King?

by: duhsciple

08-26-2010 @ 6:45pm

What do you think about the life, work, and writings of Dr. King?

by: duhsciple

08-26-2010 @ 6:46pm

How do you understanding Dr. King's message for our time?

by: duhsciple

08-26-2010 @ 6:46pm

How do you understanding Dr. King's message for our time?

by: duhsciple

08-26-2010 @ 6:47pm

When will Mr. Beck and Mr. Wallis share a meal and conversation together? Are they both open to such a meeting? Is neither open to such a meeting? Is only one of them open to such a meeting?

by: duhsciple

08-26-2010 @ 6:47pm

When will Mr. Beck and Mr. Wallis share a meal and conversation together? Are they both open to such a meeting? Is neither open to such a meeting? Is only one of them open to such a meeting?

by: Jennifer Mott Palermo

08-26-2010 @ 7:55pm

it is about giving freely not having the govt take it from us. I believe faith without works in dead.

by: Jennifer Mott Palermo

08-26-2010 @ 7:55pm

it is about giving freely not having the govt take it from us. I believe faith without works in dead.

by: Jennifer Mott Palermo

08-26-2010 @ 8:10pm

If you list all of President Obama's associations who are marxist, communist, socialists, you will see where we get much of the idea. why not do that? along with Obama saying "at some point you have made enough" and "when you spread the wealth around it is good for everybody."Someone please tell the Pres it is not working! It's the economy!

by: Jennifer Mott Palermo

08-26-2010 @ 8:10pm

If you list all of President Obama's associations who are marxist, communist, socialists, you will see where we get much of the idea. why not do that? along with Obama saying "at some point you have made enough" and "when you spread the wealth around it is good for everybody."Someone please tell the Pres it is not working! It's the economy!

by: Steve Cartwright

08-26-2010 @ 8:22pm

Please cite the quotations from Pres. Obama. And what is wrong with saying "at some point you have made enough"? Did not Jesus teach exactly the same thing? And did not he and the Apostles teach, and actually do, "spread the wealth around"?

by: Steve Cartwright

08-26-2010 @ 8:22pm

Please cite the quotations from Pres. Obama. And what is wrong with saying "at some point you have made enough"? Did not Jesus teach exactly the same thing? And did not he and the Apostles teach, and actually do, "spread the wealth around"?

by: KJB007

08-26-2010 @ 8:27pm

MLK did what he did for other people knowing that he might pay the ultimate price for it (and of course, he did). Beck does what he does for himself hoping you will pay any price for it. Beck practices good old capitalism, that's for sure.

by: KJB007

08-26-2010 @ 8:27pm

MLK did what he did for other people knowing that he might pay the ultimate price for it (and of course, he did). Beck does what he does for himself hoping you will pay any price for it. Beck practices good old capitalism, that's for sure.

by: AbelDC

08-26-2010 @ 8:34pm

I assume you're also against medicare, medicaid and social security, yes? Because they're all socialism pure and simple. Oh and the VA, can't forget about government health care now can we.

Our government is an extension of our society, why should we not use it to help those in need? How is the government helping the needed or the brave men and women who served in the military a bad thing?

And if its not then socialism it's self isn't. In which case Obama being or leaning towards socialism isn't bad or wrong.

Should it have limits, of course, but who's need is greater the man who works two jobs trying to put food on the table or the man working to buy a second home? Is that man being able to readily afford that home worth a family going hungry? Or should he pay a little more in taxes delay his purchase a few months and have the family eat?

We in this country currently have the largest gap between the rich in poor since the gilded age. If the government can narrow that gap by taxing the wealthy a little more and spending money on programs to help the poor why shouldn't it? What is inherently wrong with using an extension of our society to strive to reach our ideals?

by: AbelDC

08-26-2010 @ 8:34pm

I assume you're also against medicare, medicaid and social security, yes? Because they're all socialism pure and simple. Oh and the VA, can't forget about government health care now can we.

Our government is an extension of our society, why should we not use it to help those in need? How is the government helping the needed or the brave men and women who served in the military a bad thing?

And if its not then socialism it's self isn't. In which case Obama being or leaning towards socialism isn't bad or wrong.

Should it have limits, of course, but who's need is greater the man who works two jobs trying to put food on the table or the man working to buy a second home? Is that man being able to readily afford that home worth a family going hungry? Or should he pay a little more in taxes delay his purchase a few months and have the family eat?

We in this country currently have the largest gap between the rich in poor since the gilded age. If the government can narrow that gap by taxing the wealthy a little more and spending money on programs to help the poor why shouldn't it? What is inherently wrong with using an extension of our society to strive to reach our ideals?

by: Sonofahistorian

08-26-2010 @ 9:04pm

"Beck has lied again and again about me and so many others..."

Once again, can someone please give an example of a Glenn Beck lie? Since he seems to do it so often, there ought to be at least one easily verified example.

It turns out that he was not lying when he pointed out that Jim Wallis, via Sojourners, took money from George Soros. I may disagree with the importance of that fact (a fact I couldn't care less about), but it did happen.

http://online.worldmag.com/2010/08/18/wallissor...

by: Sonofahistorian

08-26-2010 @ 9:04pm

"Beck has lied again and again about me and so many others..."

Once again, can someone please give an example of a Glenn Beck lie? Since he seems to do it so often, there ought to be at least one easily verified example.

It turns out that he was not lying when he pointed out that Jim Wallis, via Sojourners, took money from George Soros. I may disagree with the importance of that fact (a fact I couldn't care less about), but it did happen.

http://online.worldmag.com/2010/08/18/wallissor...

by: davintosh

08-26-2010 @ 9:05pm

No, Jesus didn't say anything like that; he said it's easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle than for him to reach heaven ***ON HIS OWN*** but we all suffer that same affliction. No one is worthy to stand before the Throne unless he's been washed by the Blood of the Lamb. Jesus never sanctioned the idea that wealth should be taken by force from someone because someone somewhere says they make 'enough'. He did encourage us to give WILLINGLY and JOYFULLY to those in need. How can you give willingly and joyfully if the government is coercing your 'generosity'?

by: davintosh

08-26-2010 @ 9:05pm

No, Jesus didn't say anything like that; he said it's easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of a needle than for him to reach heaven ***ON HIS OWN*** but we all suffer that same affliction. No one is worthy to stand before the Throne unless he's been washed by the Blood of the Lamb. Jesus never sanctioned the idea that wealth should be taken by force from someone because someone somewhere says they make 'enough'. He did encourage us to give WILLINGLY and JOYFULLY to those in need. How can you give willingly and joyfully if the government is coercing your 'generosity'?

by: davintosh

08-26-2010 @ 9:19pm

And it's exactly that kind of thinking that's dragging us into a greater economic depression than this country has ever seen. Your thinking is distorted by the misconception that 'wealth' is a finite commodity; it's not. You don't have to take away from one to give it to another. The government's place is to create a climate in which all can prosper. You don't do that through punitive taxation of those who succeed.

by: davintosh

08-26-2010 @ 9:19pm

And it's exactly that kind of thinking that's dragging us into a greater economic depression than this country has ever seen. Your thinking is distorted by the misconception that 'wealth' is a finite commodity; it's not. You don't have to take away from one to give it to another. The government's place is to create a climate in which all can prosper. You don't do that through punitive taxation of those who succeed.

by: Charles Kiker

08-26-2010 @ 9:20pm

tseries--Your comment has not yet been removed. I have noticed that when people indulge in name calling, their comments are frequently removed. Accepting money from a foundation--and I don't know that Wallis has accepted anything from the Soros group--is not the same thing as having an affiliation with them.

by: Charles Kiker

08-26-2010 @ 9:20pm

tseries--Your comment has not yet been removed. I have noticed that when people indulge in name calling, their comments are frequently removed. Accepting money from a foundation--and I don't know that Wallis has accepted anything from the Soros group--is not the same thing as having an affiliation with them.

by: davintosh

08-26-2010 @ 9:22pm

Quite something that Wallis can conveniently forget the source of almost $1 million in donations. Sounds like he took lessons from Hillary Clinton... "I can't recall..."

by: davintosh

08-26-2010 @ 9:22pm

Quite something that Wallis can conveniently forget the source of almost $1 million in donations. Sounds like he took lessons from Hillary Clinton... "I can't recall..."

by: BlueDeacon

08-26-2010 @ 9:28pm

That's beside the point. The issue is not, and never was, giving to the poor; it's about changing the system that keeps them poor in the first place. (Unfortunately, some folks just don't get that). Besides, when you have a system based on charity it's too easy to give so that we can say "Look at what we give!" (which Jesus condemned); on top of that, the power and authority still remains with the "wealthy." That's why "economic redistribution" isn't what we're dealing with.

by: BlueDeacon

08-26-2010 @ 9:28pm

That's beside the point. The issue is not, and never was, giving to the poor; it's about changing the system that keeps them poor in the first place. (Unfortunately, some folks just don't get that). Besides, when you have a system based on charity it's too easy to give so that we can say "Look at what we give!" (which Jesus condemned); on top of that, the power and authority still remains with the "wealthy." That's why "economic redistribution" isn't what we're dealing with.

by: wjgreen314

08-26-2010 @ 9:28pm

Why has Dr. Alveda King, Dr. King, Jr.'s niece, chosen to appear with Glenn Beck on 8/28 and NOT with the NAACP, nor with the Rev. Al Sharpton, nor even with Rev. Wallis? Has anyone listened to Dr. King speak about her uncle alongside Glenn, as someone who trained under him, marched with him, and spent time in jail for doing so? Why does Dr. Alveda King endorse Glenn, a self-professing Mormon, and put her imprimatur on his rally? Why? Because she knows that Glenn -- contrary to false belief -- really does understand, endorse, and echo Dr. MLK's primary ministry, the ministry of reconciliation with God AND one another via the Church, NOT primarily a secular government who's financial profligacy is arguably worse than the prodigal son's but which shows NO remorse nor repentance as did the prodigal son. Ministry to the poor and downtrodden rightly happens voluntarily as an expression of charity via non-government institutions, especially and primarily religious ones. The framers never enumerated to the State via the States the power to declare a war on poverty which it is losing and will continue to lose even as it plunges our nation further into near-unrecoverable debt: $13,400,000,000,000 and counting . . .

by: wjgreen314

08-26-2010 @ 9:28pm

Why has Dr. Alveda King, Dr. King, Jr.'s niece, chosen to appear with Glenn Beck on 8/28 and NOT with the NAACP, nor with the Rev. Al Sharpton, nor even with Rev. Wallis? Has anyone listened to Dr. King speak about her uncle alongside Glenn, as someone who trained under him, marched with him, and spent time in jail for doing so? Why does Dr. Alveda King endorse Glenn, a self-professing Mormon, and put her imprimatur on his rally? Why? Because she knows that Glenn -- contrary to false belief -- really does understand, endorse, and echo Dr. MLK's primary ministry, the ministry of reconciliation with God AND one another via the Church, NOT primarily a secular government who's financial profligacy is arguably worse than the prodigal son's but which shows NO remorse nor repentance as did the prodigal son. Ministry to the poor and downtrodden rightly happens voluntarily as an expression of charity via non-government institutions, especially and primarily religious ones. The framers never enumerated to the State via the States the power to declare a war on poverty which it is losing and will continue to lose even as it plunges our nation further into near-unrecoverable debt: $13,400,000,000,000 and counting . . .

by: BlueDeacon

08-26-2010 @ 9:31pm

Beck's lies have been documented on other entries earlier this year.

And you have to understand why World magazine (which I quit reading years ago) even made an issue out of Sojourners' receiving money from George Soros -- it has no respect at all for anyone, even a Christian organization, that doesn't subscribe to the right-wing view of things. It does this consistently.

by: BlueDeacon

08-26-2010 @ 9:31pm

Beck's lies have been documented on other entries earlier this year.

And you have to understand why World magazine (which I quit reading years ago) even made an issue out of Sojourners' receiving money from George Soros -- it has no respect at all for anyone, even a Christian organization, that doesn't subscribe to the right-wing view of things. It does this consistently.

by: BlueDeacon

08-26-2010 @ 9:32pm

You don't have to take away from one to give it to another.

Oh, but you do. Even the rich had to get their money from somewhere.

by: BlueDeacon

08-26-2010 @ 9:32pm

You don't have to take away from one to give it to another.

Oh, but you do. Even the rich had to get their money from somewhere.

by: Sonofahistorian

08-26-2010 @ 9:43pm

Why do I care what their motive in investigating it was. It happened. Glenn Beck didn't lie about. End of story.

As for Glenn's other lies, I grow tired of people just giving the "it's been documented somewhere else" line. Give me an example. Surely you have something in mind. I would hate to think that your opinion of him is based purely on hear-say and vague generalizations.

by: Sonofahistorian

08-26-2010 @ 9:43pm

Why do I care what their motive in investigating it was. It happened. Glenn Beck didn't lie about. End of story.

As for Glenn's other lies, I grow tired of people just giving the "it's been documented somewhere else" line. Give me an example. Surely you have something in mind. I would hate to think that your opinion of him is based purely on hear-say and vague generalizations.

by: AbelDC

08-26-2010 @ 9:50pm

It's not a matter of being punitive it's a matter of seeing those with more as being capable of paying more with little to no harm to their economic prosperity. You act as though there were no rich men when the taxes for the top 1% were at 70% or even when they were at 90%. I'm not even suggesting they should be that high. And if governments job is to create an environment where all can prosper shouldn't we be providing as much support as we can for those who are struggling to do so?

by: AbelDC

08-26-2010 @ 9:50pm

It's not a matter of being punitive it's a matter of seeing those with more as being capable of paying more with little to no harm to their economic prosperity. You act as though there were no rich men when the taxes for the top 1% were at 70% or even when they were at 90%. I'm not even suggesting they should be that high. And if governments job is to create an environment where all can prosper shouldn't we be providing as much support as we can for those who are struggling to do so?