Hope for the Holy Land

What resolution between the Jews and Palestinians regarding Jerusalem will be of interest as peace agreements move forward because Zechariah states that the issue of Jerusalem will be the problem in the last days. Zechariah has some fascinating end-time prophecies. It would be nice if everyone could just sort of get along and be sensitive to one-another's plight, but what is going to unfold is clearly put forth in Scripture. It does include a peace agreement, but that is followed by the tribulation period, the time that Jesus said "unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved." I'm not happy that that is what is to come, but God's Word is true and will come to pass.

Well, hammerud, it is pretty clear, but I'm pretty sure that she didn't study that.

I'm thinking she studied the Scriptures at least as well as you've apparently studied the COC...which is also pretty clear about respect, insulting, mocking, slandering, and making unfounded prejudicial assumptions.

Unfortunately another example of "wishful thinking" foreign policy. This consciously ignores the 800 lb gorilla in the room, namely, Islam. Try this:

1--If all muslims said we lay down our guns and want to live in peace, side by side with the jews. The result? Peace tomorrow.

2--If all jews said we lay down our guns and want to live in peace side by side with muslims. The result? Peace tomorrow; it's just that all jews would be dead.

Islam is the problem; the only solution is conversion to Christianity. There is no peace without Christ.

Can you flesh out the theological claim from Zechariah for basing your claim that the issue of Jerusalem will usher in the end-times?

To what extent are various versions of end-times theology responsible for the current impasse? For instance, the (mis)interpretation of Genesis 12 to imply that Israel can do no wrong and so forth?

IMHO, Sojo can start a very productive theological project by examining in detail various examples of bad theology and why they're flawed.

God's word may be true but I have grave doubts about your interpretation of it. The prophets have much to say about justice, violence, regard for the alien and the powerless which is clear as day. Interpretation of the end times is much more controversial and unclear. Basing foreign policy on echatology is dodgy at best.

In response to "ononehome:"

Please reconsider this response, which I find to be cynical and biased against both Jews and Muslims.

Criticizing one faction as totally to blame for the problems gets us nowhere. Regardless of who is more at fault, we need to pray and work for peaceful settlement of the Palestinian/Isreale conflict. People on both sides are suffering. As Christians we are called to be peacemakers and keep trying, in my opinion. Our faith does not allow us to just

"throw up our hands" about this problem.

There is no reasonable prospect that all parties will choose "conversion to Christianity" in the near future, so this is not a serious suggestion for peace. BTW, lots of Christians have fueded every bit as long as have the leaders in this conflict, so Christianity is hardly a panacea for peace.

Do you recall Tony Campolo's critical analysis of Christian Zionism a few weeks ago? It makes very disturbing reading if you are a Christian. The crusades did not die with Richard the Lionheart. We have much to answer for. We do well to pull the plank out of our eye before rounding on Islam.

@noonehome: You assert the old chesnut that muslims laying down weapons would lead to peace, but jews laying down weapons would lead to their extermination.

I disbelieve that.

But since you made your assertion without any proof whatsoever, I likewise feel no need to present any rationale.

When you are ready to reason in nuanced, open-minded ways, I am ready to dialog with you.

Ngchen -- It won't usher it in, it is just highlighted as being part

of it. Because of that, what we see happening in Israel and in the

world today is interesting. Zechariah focuses largely on end-time

events.

What is going to unfold is clearly put forth in Scripture.

What has been unfolding for the last fifty years, for the last four centuries, for the last fifteen centuries and for the last twenty centuries, is thoroughly described, in sufficient explicit detail to recognize it, in Scripture.

What has been unfolding for the last fifty years is described by prophecies of all three religions of Abraham and all monotheistic religions.

I've been watching for the last forty years for any indication that we are not seeing those prophecies being fulfilled. So far, everything I've seen suggests that they are. It is not "determined" yet, but neither is it disproven.

This should not be a matter of fear for the Faithful. What is prophesied for this particular time in the "future history" of prophecy is that America will return to being a Christian nation, on the Christianity of Jesus, not of Rome.

Everyone here can thank God for allowing us to be a part of that and witness it. It's Majestic and Merciful beyond anyone's imagination.

But do not be deceived should the False Messiah appear, pretending to be Jesus, and the world's Jews ~ as planned, over two thousand years ago ~ testify that he is the Messiah. Jesus warned us about this ~ that he would deceive, "were it possible," even the Chosen.

You are the Chosen. Do not be deceived.

Never mind...comment this was response to has been removed.

The enemies of humanity grow increasingly hysterical as they realize that their time has come.

Islam is the problem; the only solution is conversion to Christianity. There is no peace without Christ.

You probably have no idea of how mistaken you are. But God will inform you.

This sounds like a "dispensationalist" interpretation of scripture, following John Nelson Darby, made popular by the Scofield Bible, then recently updated by the "Left Behind" series. It does not seem that any Sojourners contributors read the Bible from this interpretive lens.

When I think about the current conflict, I ponder the "Sermon on the Mount": Blessed are the peacemakers... and blessed are those who are abused for the sake of righteousness and justice... The ongoing conflict will need peacemakers on the ground who are willing to suffer and put their lives on the line, nonviolently, with a discipline and sacrifice normally associated with the military. Right now, there is an ongoing cycle of revenge and retaliation. The need is for courageous witnesses to step in and break this cycle, opening up spaces for reconciliation

This sounds like the ancient Babylon religion, grounded in the Marduk-Tiamat myth. The story says that violence and chaos are inherent in creation and human beings so that a greater violence must always impose order. Cartoons such as "Popeye" and the old Clint Eastwood films are re-tellings of this story. This smells to me like Islam is "Bluto" and Christians are "Popeye" and Jews are "Olive Oyl." Notice that the cartoon is always the same. No one ever learns anything. Of course, this story is what has been playing out in the Middle East conflict-- no learning or spiritual growth ever takes place!

I find that the biblical story which finds its fulfillment in Christ to be the true Story. Sacrificial, non-violent, redemptive love is the power which rescues the world. Lamb of God, you take away the sin of the world, have mercy on us. May Lamb power bring the peace that we long for!

Yes, let us look at the theological roots of the stories that are being told. Consider that a common theology among Christians, Muslims, and Jews is the "saving power of violence." Of course, not all adherents to these faiths have unwavering belief in the false god Violence. Sadly, many share this false faith, beginning with the terrorists who trigger the false faith of other Violence followers. Lamb of God, you take away the sin of the world, have mercy on us.

The dispensationalist pre-trib rapture view does state that there will

be a peace agreement. The Ezekiel 37 and 38 chapters, I think, have

the statement, "let us go up to the land of unwalled villages,"

portending the attack on Israel, in which God intervenes. The key

point here is that Israel will be in a state of "unwalled villages"

suggesting a successful peace agreement. I hold the pre-trib

dispensationalist position, and basically agree with Darby and

Schofield's take on end-time events. I know there is disagreement in

the Christian community and that most people in Sojourners do not have

that position, but that is my position. One fundamental premise that

leads me to that position is the fact that Israel is the key to God's

working with mankind to the end (key verses on God's commitment to

Israel, for example, are in Jeremiah 31 and 51 and when God tells

Daniel that 70 weeks are determined upon Jerusalem and his people, the

Jews ). When Christians think that the church has replaced Israel

(replacement theology) they contradict those points. The church has

been inserted as a mystery for a time, but is not part of the 70th

week of Daniel, which is the tribulation period described in detail in

the Book of Revelation. The Word of God, Scripture, is part of my

personal life. I have been reading 11 chapters a day, every day, for

40 years, and been teaching Scripture weekly for over 20 years so my

take on this issue is not without some sense of what Scripture

actually says and how the Schofield-Darby take on things is consistent

with Scripture. One's take on end-time events is a peripheral issue,

I realize, and there are wonderful Christians who do not hold this view.

This sounds like a "dispensationalist" interpretation of scripture, following John Nelson Darby, made popular by the Scofield Bible, then recently updated by the "Left Behind" series. It does not seem that any Sojourners contributors read the Bible from this interpretive lens.

With good reason ~ Darby's interpretation rests on insufficient Scriptural data and a huge gap in historical information. See Genesis 9:27 for the first element of the Scriptural information he missed ~ most likely because it's mistranslated.

Right now, there is an ongoing cycle of revenge and retaliation. The need is for courageous witnesses to step in and break this cycle, opening up spaces for reconciliation

It's not an "ongoing cycle of revenge and retaliation," it's a war against Jesus that's been going on since the time of Solomon, the initial plan for which led to the Babylonian Captivity, where the plan was refined for three generations.

This sounds like the ancient Babylon religion, grounded in the Marduk-Tiamat myth.

That's what it is ~ the religion of Nimrod.

Consider that a common theology among Christians, Muslims, and Jews is the "saving power of violence."

Nimrod's followers are a party among the Christians, muslims, and Jews, yes, and following a common agenda that "the lying pens of the scribes" (Jeremiah 8:8) wrote into Scripture and the false Tradition of the pharisees (the Jesus denounced) during and after the Babylonian Captivity, before Jesus, and after he was gone. Among those Jesus called "those who say they are Jews but are not," that "theology" is basically "Let's you and him fight" ~ that is, "let us" Christians and muslims fight.

But there is no "common theology of violence" in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. The "saving power of violence" is "saving" from violent aggression against the faithful and the innocent. It is not remotely aggressive or initiated by anything other than an actual physical attack.

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