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Quran Burning is a Sacrilegious Slap in the Face of Christ

by Jim Wallis 09-08-2010 | 2:06pm
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The extremes now seem to dictate the political discourse -- extremists in caves who invoke their distorted brand of Muslim faith as they murder innocent people; and extremists in a Florida church who want to "send a message" to a billion Muslims around the world by threatening to burn hundreds of copies of the Quran in the name of their distorted brand of Christianity. Not many had ever heard of Terry Jones, except perhaps the few members of the small Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida -- until he declared September 11 as "International Burn a Koran Day." He has promised to start with his church this Saturday. Now even General David Petraeaus has heard of him and on Tuesday said that the burning "would undoubtedly be used by extremists in Afghanistan -- and around the world -- to inflame public opinion and incite violence."

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What Jones doesn't seem to understand is that the message he is really sending is a sacrilegious slap in the face of Jesus Christ. If Jones and his followers go through with their plans to burn the Quran they might as well burn some Bibles too, because they are already destroying the teachings of Jesus. Jesus called his followers to be peacemakers, and to love not only their neighbors but even their enemies; instead Jones and his church have decided to become agents for conflict and division. Jones needs someone to tell him that Americans should not judge all Muslims by the actions of a small group of terrorists and I hope somebody tells Muslims around the world not to judge Christians or all of America by the actions of a radical fringe like the Dove World Outreach Center.

Hundreds of Afghans attended a demonstration in Kabul on Monday to protest the Florida pastor's plans. The protesters chanted "death to America" and some threw rocks at a military convoy, according to media reports from the country. But just like the proclaimed faith of the terrorists bears no resemblance to the faith of most Muslims, the actions of Jones and his followers bear no resemblance to the faith of most Christians. Jones knows that his actions are legally protected, but if he follows through he should know that he makes a mockery of the teachings of Jesus and even puts our country and troops in danger. His fellow Christians need to stop Terry Jones and his Dove World Outreach Center from burning hundreds of copies of the Quran on Saturday (and somebody should tell them what a "dove" symbolizes!)

National Association of Evangelicals President Leith Anderson said in a statement, "It sounds like the proposed Quran burning is rooted in revenge. Yet the Bible says that Christians should 'make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always try to be kind to each other and to everyone else' (1 Thessalonians 5:15)

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by: WaveTossed

09-09-2010 @ 5:49pm

Rustyrabon wrote to Ankaboot: "What, kind sir, are the 'violent propensities of the faith of Americanism?'"

I'm not Ankaboot. But I'll answer anyway. I can name many violent propensities among American people calling themselves "Christian." Before I do so, let me qualify: I am a Christian and thus am quite aware that these violent Americans do not represent Christianity in America or any other country. Anymore than protesting Afghans represent Islam in America, Afghanistan, or anywhere else.

Here is my list of people and organizations with violent propensities who have committed murderous crimes in the name of Christianity:

The so-called "Christian" Ku Klux Klan and their murders of James Chaney, Michael Schwerner, and Andrew Goodman in 1964. This is just one of many thousands of murders, lynchings and other crimes that the Ku Klux Klan, a terrorist organization, has commited during the 19th and 20th centuries and even into the 21st century.

Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson, the murderers of Matthew Sheppard in Wyoming. These Americans tortured him and strung him up on some barbed wire because they were angry at his sexual orientation.

Timothy McVeigh, who blew up a federal building in Oklahoma City, killing hundreds of people.

Benjamin Matthew Williams and James Tyler Williams, two brothers who murdered gay couple Gary Matson and Winfield Mowder because they believed that the Bible told them to put gay people to death. The victims were in their own bedrooms when they were murdered by the two brothers who had invaded their home.

This is just a sampling. I can go ahead and list all of the lynchings, beatings, murders of people in American history by people considering themselves "Christian" because of race, sexual orientation, nationality, and gender. It would number in the thousands.

This does NOT mean that America is a violent nation or that Christianity is a violent religion. Any more than that any country with a Muslim majority is a violent country or that Islam is a violent religion.

by: BlueDeacon

09-09-2010 @ 2:35pm

In the case of the woman caught in adultery, however, the Pharisees broke three other laws in the process, rendering the accusation invalid. That's why she had to walk.

by: Patricia

09-09-2010 @ 5:47pm

Nope - they're just irrationally fearful, prejudiced, and ignorant.

Just like the similar percentage of Americans who once thought it was offensive for Japanese Americans to live their lives in peace and freedom following the Attack on Pearl Harbor, and just like the similar percentage of Americans who once thought it was offensive for people of color to go to the same schools and live in the same neighborhoods they did.

by: histrogeek

09-09-2010 @ 2:04pm

I remember that story. A key point was that Francis spoke his piece without insult. And Saladin listened with respect. In this Francis was following the example of Jesus.

by: Patricia

09-09-2010 @ 5:40pm

Here are some reasons why Muslims around the world would be so up in arms about Koran burning here:

1. In most Muslim countries around the world, the government controls the press. What the government endorses gets reported by the press. What the government opposes gets left alone by the press. Organized press reporting of Koran burning, seen from the reality of people living in these countries, is equivalent to government support of Koran burning, because if our government did not support it, it would not be permitted or reported, in their minds.

2. Our troops in their nations are official representatives of the US Government, which will be seen as supporting the action, for the reason I've described above.

Why don't you question why the criminal actions of some deluded fools who thought they were doing something for God on September 11 has caused Americans and American Christians to be so up in arms against the entire faith of Islam that our national government officials have to repeatedly remind us that we are all entitled to our Constitutional rights and protection under the law?

Why don't you question what this says about followers of Christ that they would respond in such a way?

Why don't you question what this says about OUR religion?

Why don't you question if this means we must live in fear that if we don't give every Christian everything they want, someone somewhere here will cause violence?

Why doesn't that sound like American/Christian blackmail to you, and why doesn't THAT cause you great concern?

by: jomaco

09-09-2010 @ 1:50pm

Since the fire permit for this burning was denied, can the Gainesville Fire Department stand at the ready with a hose to extinguish the first sign of flame? Could the counter-demonstrators bring fire extinguishers - or Super-Soakers?

There would be damage to the Qurans, but with proper care they could be brought back to reasonably good condition.

by: jsboegl

09-09-2010 @ 5:40pm

I have a missionary friend in China who's commented: "LET'S PRAY & LOVE OUR MUSLIM NEIGHBORS TO JESUS and then THEY CAN BURN THEIR OWN KORANS... (ala Acts 19:19)"

by: squeaky

09-09-2010 @ 5:36pm

Why is it offensive?

by: squeaky

09-09-2010 @ 5:33pm

It isn't about being hostages to Islamic reaction. If anything, it is about our faith being hostages to this one guy in a tiny church in Florida. He is misrepresenting our faith, and trust me, people who are not Christians have the same ability to discern between him and us as non-Muslims have of distinguishing the 9-11 attackers with Islam.

In pointing to the atrocities in Muslim nations, don't forget Christianity's own history of violence. Saying we are better because we are no longer violent allows an arrogance that is historically unjustifiable.

Ironically, you speak out against the potential protests and demonstrations in the name of the Muslim God in other nations when this man is creating his own protest and demonstration in the name of his, and by association, ours. He is no better than they are. You ignore that he is not only raising anti-American sentiments in Islamic nations, but he is also raising and inciting anti-Muslim sentiments in our nation. And yet you blame those who are being targeted, rather than the idiot with the match.

You are right--the actions of this man shouldn't raise this much response from the Islamic world. And, if Muslims understood Christianity to be a peaceful religion, maybe it wouldn't. But just as many Christians equate Islam with 9-11 fundamentalists, apparently many Muslims equate Christianity with our own brand of fundamentalism--and that is a difficult association to fight when the cultural memory of Christianity among Muslims is one of violence perpetrated on them in the name of our God. And when you already have a group of people teetering on the edge of whether or not to trust America when bombs are dropping on their heads, you can bet this is a huge recruitment tool for the extremists.

by: Patricia

09-09-2010 @ 5:29pm

Well, UMC, you're in luck and your wish has come true then - because NO ONE is building ANYTHING ON Ground Zero!

by: choctaw_chris

09-09-2010 @ 3:29pm

It was a kangarro court but the whole point of the story is that the accusers were shamed and the woman's guilt was not debated.

by: Neocon55

09-09-2010 @ 3:23pm

Actually, Jesus did respond to those who were calling for her to be stoned. He wrote in the earth. What? I would suggest you look at Jeremiah 17:13 for the answer as to what he wrote:

"O LORD, the hope of Israel, all who forsake you shall be put to shame; those who turn away from you shall be written in the earth, for they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living water."

by: Patricia

09-09-2010 @ 6:18pm

Please don't call me "my dear" - I don't know you, and I find that patronizing and condescending. Same with labeling me "testy".

It's sad you apparently cannot make your argument without engaging in personal belittlement. It reveals quite a lot about your foundation and perspective though.

And, in case you don't remember your history, minorities in this nation have frequently had to live in fear of what would happen if they did not willingly turn over to the majority everything it wanted. Sometimes it's the racial majority, sometimes it's the religious majority. Perhaps you ought to take some of your own advice about cultivating clarity?

by: rustyrabon

09-09-2010 @ 6:06pm

My friend, you can find isolated cases and extreme examples of misdeeds and even heinous actions. But these are the exception and not the rule. Have international warnings ever gone out because Christians might potentially act in violent ways in reprisal for some supposed offense? The answer: No. What about Muslims and the Muslim world? Read today's news.

by: squeaky

09-09-2010 @ 4:06pm

Rustyrabon,

You are making this upcoming Q'ran burning about Islam. This isn't about Islam. This is about an obscure pastor given a voice and platform to speak for all Christians. He does not represent me, my faith, or Jesus. And if he is not representing you, then why are you not concerned about this act that is painting your faith as evil? By focussing on the atrocities of others, you seem to justify this act.

by: squeaky

09-09-2010 @ 6:53pm

Why do you ignore the violence that characterizes Christianity's past?

by: choctaw_chris

09-09-2010 @ 4:04pm

That makes no sense. All you've done is found a word match for earth. They bombarded Jesus with questions and he remained silent. Their motive was evil but Jesus confounded them with truth. Whatever happens on Saturday, truth will out. All we can do is heap coals on this man's head. Maybe those who would treat God's grace like dirt will be exposed for the hypocrites they are.

by: Charles Soper

09-17-2010 @ 9:44pm

I disagree. Whilst a man who hasn't read the Qur'an has no right to burn it, there is every scriptural justification and much love and kindness in an ex-Muslim irrevocably renouncing the teachings that damned past and present relatives by burning his own copy of the text - Act 19.19.
Do you think the Apostles disapproved, or used the anaemic argument that others might be stimulated to wickedness? I think not, (v.24-30). Light and holy love exposes darkness, it emphatically does not shield it.

by: squeaky

09-09-2010 @ 6:50pm

And you misunderstand, too. By focussing on those who are being targeted and their predicted reaction, you tacitly justify the person who is causing the problem in the first place. You throw your lot in with the bully.

by: letjusticerolldown

09-09-2010 @ 4:00pm

Maybe Terry Jones could alter the demonstration. Pile up the Korans. Pile up some Bibles. Gather your church members in the parking lot in a group. Let the media stand together under a tent. And pray for the Holy fire of Heaven to burn all in the parking lot that is not of God.

Do we really want the Day of the Lord?

by: Lauren Noyes

09-09-2010 @ 3:57pm

Thank you for this quick article. I sent an email to the church in florida encouraging the pastor and those who support him to reconsider what objective they have, whether their conduct is appropriate for spiritual leaders, and whether their plans will help or hinder God's will. Of course I know they probably won't listen, but perhaps one day they will be honest and regret this weekend. Please keep praying and writing, everybody!

by: umc

09-09-2010 @ 4:09pm

I do wish he would not do this. Just like I wish they would not build on Ground Zero.

Both acts are insensitive.

Maybe he just open the Koran and read from it aloud on Saturday.

That verse "Kill the infidels where you find them"

by: squeaky

09-09-2010 @ 4:09pm

Possible. But since it is not reported what He wrote, there is no way for any of us to know. For all we know it was just a "Kilroy wuz here" doodle.

by: Ankaboot

09-17-2010 @ 10:30pm

Whilst a man who hasn't read the Qur'an has no right to burn it ...

Sure he does. Everyone has an irrevocable right to be stupid, and no one has ever tried to take that right away.

by: Ankaboot

09-15-2010 @ 8:29pm

Ankaboot. I said there were loving muslims. I am speaking of the overall held beliefs. the countries ruled by it. the imams (if that is the right word) etc. I don't see these countries showing any love, the ones ruled by the faith of islam.

Well, like I said, sooner or later you may come across my posts. There are no countries ruled by the faith of Islam in the terminally-collapsed millennial muslim world. There haven't been any for over a thousand years. The people are ruled by a falsification of Islam, and as Christians have done in America, keep their faith in their hearts and minds and homes, and sometimes with their neighbors, but go to their religious assemblies and learn to reinforce their submission to secular authorities.

Is it that there are that many who read it wrong.

Like America's Christians, they hardly read it at all, and what they read has been "edited" to make them passive and pacific and submissive to tyranny.

I hear of a command or law or of that effect that states that in Islam you can lie to the infidels so has to get an upper hand.

This is false, although I'm sure you have heard of such a thing. There is no such thing in Islam.

This idea makes it hard to trust what is being said.

Then read the Qur'an for yourself and see whether you can trust what is being said by God. And if so, then judge the muslims by what God says.

Not sure if this is an added law. maybe you can expand on it.

The same people who deny that Jesus was the Messiah falsify Islam and attribute to Islam the behavior of muslims who do the opposite of what their religion says muslims do. This was going on ~ by the same party ~ when Muhammad was alive, before he was born, and ever since.

We are allowed to deny what we believe if that's necessary to avoid being murdered. And "War is a ruse." But the only wars in which muslims today are involved are those in muslim-majority countries that have been invaded ~ they're defensive wars to expel a murderous invader. And the Inquisition is long over ~ not that any muslims were spared by the Reconquista ...

You've been lied to. That shouldn't come as a surprise.

See The Strangers for something that most of today's muslims don't even know about Islam. And then read some of the other pages on the Muslim America website.

Why would any sane person want to be responsible for "managing" the affairs of people who have little regard for the results of what they do? Go ahead ~ Please!!! ~ and join your government and make America a real "Christian country." You'll be a vast improvement over the current crop of lying thieves and murderers. You don't need to worry about America's muslims, we're governed by God, Who has told us to protect and defend you or help you do that yourselves.

But you haven't been doing either ... not against the Deniers of Christ and the falsifiers of God's Word ...

by: john316

09-09-2010 @ 4:28pm

Don't burn the book! Burn the printing press. Burning Korans just looks like increased Koran sales.

by: jkam2000

09-09-2010 @ 4:27pm

If you're going to call Jim out, at least get the spelling correct: "Petraeus"

by: rustyrabon

09-09-2010 @ 4:25pm

Quite to the contrary, my friend. Nothing I have said in any way endorses the actions of the folks in Florida. But there is also nothing in those actions that paint my faith as evil. Those are the actions of a deluded fool who thinks he is doing something for God, and they have nothing to do with biblical Christianity. What I am questioning is why the actions of a fool in Florida cause Muslims around the world to be so up in arms that our national government officials have to give warnings about reprisals. What does it say about the followers of Islam that they would respond in such a way? What does it say about the religion? Just today, NPR and MSNBC reported that the leader of the group seeking to build the Islamic "cultural center" in Manhattan said that moving it to another location might stir up reprisals in the Muslim community around the world. So are we to live in fear that if we don't give every Muslim everything they want, someone somewhere will cause violence? Sounds like Muslim blackmail to me. And that causes me great concern.

by: BlueDeacon

09-09-2010 @ 4:13pm

Cordoba House will not only not be on "Ground Zero"; you won't even be able to see it from there.

by: umc

09-09-2010 @ 4:36pm

But yet over 70% of Americans find it to be offensive, and are told by over and over to get over it. Are they oikphobic?

by: squeaky

09-09-2010 @ 7:17pm

Hey sweety,

Your response is once again in Klingon. I realize you are fluent, but mine's a bit rusty. (ooh, pun not intended!)

by: BlueDeacon

09-09-2010 @ 4:51pm

They're offended because of their ignorance, and I mean that sincerely. A Muslim gentleman who is frequenting this site has published the website for the Cordoba Initiative, which in part represents a response to 9/11. (And keep in mind that Osama bin Laden would oppose it as well.) Also, the Fox News Channel referred to it as a mosque on Ground Zero, and that had people whipped up in a frenzy.

by: rustyrabon

09-09-2010 @ 7:03pm

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Subject: [godspolitics] Re: Quran Burning is a Sacrilegious Slap in the Face of Christ</lor1958@bellsouth.net>

by: rustyrabon

09-09-2010 @ 7:03pm

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Subject: [godspolitics] Re: Quran Burning is a Sacrilegious Slap in the Face of Christ</lor1958@bellsouth.net>

by: BlueDeacon

09-09-2010 @ 7:01pm

I just saw this post -- sorry for repeating what you already said.

by: BlueDeacon

09-09-2010 @ 7:00pm

A Christian terrorist group still active today was until the 1970s very active in most of this country, especially rural America. Its name: The Ku Klux Klan.

by: rustyrabon

09-09-2010 @ 6:01pm

My, my, dear Patricia, we are getting "testy" aren't we. Here you go again finding every justification for the irrational behavior of Muslims around the world - which according to our government leaders and even Muslim leaders could put the lives of people at risk - all because of the foolish actions of a religious quack in Florida - which will put no human life at risk.

Concerning the actions of deluded fools on 9/11, they seem to have many compatriots in the Muslim world today who are bent on doing the same thing - and they seem to need next to nothing to provoke them into action. For verification, check today's news.

Concerning the followers of Christ, those who truly follow Christ will seek to act as Christ acted, and live as Christ taught. He also taught that He was THE Way, THE Truth, and THE Life - in other words, faith in Him is the only way to the true and living God - but if I say that in the Muslim world, I might lose my head.

I don't question what the actions of the Florida book burner says about "our religion" - I'm assuming you're a Christian; I certainly hope so - because his actions say nothing about Christianity. While he is a poor representative of Christianity - as I often am as well - his actions speak about him as a person. You make a valid point that our misdeed reflect negatively on Christ, but they say nothing about the truth of Christianity.

My dear, when was the last time that you had to live in fear if you didn't give every Christian everything they wanted? When has any offense against Christians anywhere been the cause of international attention and concern that there would be violent reprisals. Certainly, this statement must either reflect your prejudice or a certain degree of anger at me.

American Christian blackmail? Why should I be concerned about something that doesn't exist?

My dear, calm down and think clearly. Take off your Muslim apologists hat - or your anti-Christian hat - and think reasonably.

by: rustyrabon

09-09-2010 @ 5:50pm

Friend, you again misunderstand. If you do not want Americans to equate Islam with the 9/11 radicals, then you must not equate Christianity with the Florida book burner. If American Muslims -and indeed, if most Muslims are "peace loving" as has been alleged - then they should be discerning enough to distinguish between the man in Florida and Chrisitianity as a whole. Christians - and other Americans - are being asked to do that of Muslims. Why can they not be expected to do that as well? Can Muslims not be expected to act in a reasonable and mature way - both in this country and around the world?

by: Ankaboot

09-11-2010 @ 2:53pm

Reply to RustyRabon to replace this notice presently.

by: WaveTossed

09-09-2010 @ 5:49pm

Rustyrabon wrote to Ankaboot: "What, kind sir, are the 'violent propensities of the faith of Americanism?'"

I'm not Ankaboot. But I'll answer anyway. I can name many violent propensities among American people calling themselves "Christian." Before I do so, let me qualify: I am a Christian and thus am quite aware that these violent Americans do not represent Christianity in America or any other country. Anymore than protesting Afghans represent Islam in America, Afghanistan, or anywhere else.

Here is my list of people and organizations with violent propensities who have committed murderous crimes in the name of Christianity:

The so-called "Christian" Ku Klux Klan and their murders of James Chaney, Michael Schwerner, and Andrew Goodman in 1964. This is just one of many thousands of murders, lynchings and other crimes that the Ku Klux Klan, a terrorist organization, has commited during the 19th and 20th centuries and even into the 21st century.

Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson, the murderers of Matthew Sheppard in Wyoming. These Americans tortured him and strung him up on some barbed wire because they were angry at his sexual orientation.

Timothy McVeigh, who blew up a federal building in Oklahoma City, killing hundreds of people.

Benjamin Matthew Williams and James Tyler Williams, two brothers who murdered gay couple Gary Matson and Winfield Mowder because they believed that the Bible told them to put gay people to death. The victims were in their own bedrooms when they were murdered by the two brothers who had invaded their home.

This is just a sampling. I can go ahead and list all of the lynchings, beatings, murders of people in American history by people considering themselves "Christian" because of race, sexual orientation, nationality, and gender. It would number in the thousands.

This does NOT mean that America is a violent nation or that Christianity is a violent religion. Any more than that any country with a Muslim majority is a violent country or that Islam is a violent religion.

by: BlueDeacon

09-11-2010 @ 1:56pm

There are 10,000 Muslims living in the immediate area of the 9/11 attacks, and none of them participated or even cheered the attack. I know this for a fact.

by: Patricia

09-09-2010 @ 5:47pm

Nope - they're just irrationally fearful, prejudiced, and ignorant.

Just like the similar percentage of Americans who once thought it was offensive for Japanese Americans to live their lives in peace and freedom following the Attack on Pearl Harbor, and just like the similar percentage of Americans who once thought it was offensive for people of color to go to the same schools and live in the same neighborhoods they did.

by: BlueDeacon

09-09-2010 @ 8:18pm

That's not quite what happened with the woman caught in adultery, however. For openers, Torah also required that her partner be brought in for the same punishment. Also, you have to have at least two eyewitnesses; however, the Law also said that even to watch people having sex was a violation (leading me to suspect a "sting" operation). Third, the Pharisees brought her into the temple area, which meant that if her partner had had an ejaculation she would have been ceremonially unclean and had no business even being brought there in the first place. In other words, they had to withdraw the accusation because they ended up breaking more of the Law than she did.

by: Patricia

09-09-2010 @ 5:40pm

Here are some reasons why Muslims around the world would be so up in arms about Koran burning here:

1. In most Muslim countries around the world, the government controls the press. What the government endorses gets reported by the press. What the government opposes gets left alone by the press. Organized press reporting of Koran burning, seen from the reality of people living in these countries, is equivalent to government support of Koran burning, because if our government did not support it, it would not be permitted or reported, in their minds.

2. Our troops in their nations are official representatives of the US Government, which will be seen as supporting the action, for the reason I've described above.

Why don't you question why the criminal actions of some deluded fools who thought they were doing something for God on September 11 has caused Americans and American Christians to be so up in arms against the entire faith of Islam that our national government officials have to repeatedly remind us that we are all entitled to our Constitutional rights and protection under the law?

Why don't you question what this says about followers of Christ that they would respond in such a way?

Why don't you question what this says about OUR religion?

Why don't you question if this means we must live in fear that if we don't give every Christian everything they want, someone somewhere here will cause violence?

Why doesn't that sound like American/Christian blackmail to you, and why doesn't THAT cause you great concern?

by: WaveTossed

09-09-2010 @ 8:15pm

Rustyrabon wrote to Patricia: "Concerning the followers of Christ, those who truly follow Christ will seek to act as Christ acted, and live as Christ taught. He also taught that He was THE Way, THE Truth, and THE Life - in other words, faith in Him is the only way to the true and living God"

But there are many people calling themselves "Christian" who do not truly follow Christ. They do not follow the teachings of Jesus Christ but instead, commit violence in His name. The same goes for many people calling themselves "Muslim" who do not truly follow the teachings of Islam but instead commit violence in the name of Islam.

Rustyrabon wrote to me: "My friend, you can find isolated cases and extreme examples of misdeeds and even heinous actions. But these are the exception and not the rule."

If you study the history of the Ku Klux Klan in the late 19th, throughout the 20th century, and in the 21st century, you will find that their actions were not always considered extreme. During the middle 1960s, I was in Mississippi, directly involved in the African-American civil rights struggle. Believe me, for every James Chaney, Michael Schwerner, and Andrew Goodman that you may have read about in the papers, there were countless other, mostly African-Americans who were put to death by KKK terror activities that were never reported in the media. This violence against African-Americans has continued into the later parts of the 20th century and into the 21st century.

Here are a few links about violence against African-American people:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States

When it comes to violence against LGBT people by people considering themselves "Christian", the cases are so numerous -- it would take me an entire page of this blog to recount them all. I'm not talking about ministers or other believers saying, "homosexuality is a sin," I'm talking about beatings, torture, rape, and murder. But for your edification, I'll supply a link to a Wikipedia article about violence against LGBT people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_LGBT_people#1990.E2.80.931999

And another link concerning violence against Mexican-Americans. Some of the present incidents of violence have occurred under the rationalization that the victims were "illegal immigrants."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Mexican_sentiment

And articles about anti-Muslim hate crimes in the US. The 1st site is about anti-Muslim persecution around the world. You can skip to the section on anti-Muslim acts within the US. The 2nd article outlines some murders against some men, only one who turned out to be of Muslim descent, by a man "seeking revenge for 9/11."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Muslims#cite_note-180

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/01/nyregion/vibes-made-man-kill-and-confess-police-say.html

by: BlueDeacon

09-11-2010 @ 3:35pm

The Muslim who wants to build the community center in Manhattan said that if the effort is blocked it will be seen negatively in the Muslim world and there will be riots and violence because of it. Why do so many Muslims react violently to what they see as offenses agains their faith? The Danish cartoons come to mind as well.

by: jsboegl

09-09-2010 @ 5:40pm

I have a missionary friend in China who's commented: "LET'S PRAY & LOVE OUR MUSLIM NEIGHBORS TO JESUS and then THEY CAN BURN THEIR OWN KORANS... (ala Acts 19:19)"

by: Ankaboot

09-09-2010 @ 8:13pm

Hey Ankaboot, I've been following your comments. Great!

Thanks! 3/4 of a megabyte so far.

Sample nakedpastor's blog. It's right on - even though he's a Christian.

Ouch! "Even though"? Did Jesus ever ignore someone speaking to him, for any reason?

The Messenger of the Covenant told his companions about us, that "God will bring them together to join Jesus the son of Mary."

So now how would I not listen to someone "because" they might be "a Christian"?

But I did take a look, yesterday. I had fifty-one Sojo "new post" messages in my mailbox, I'm working through them ... on five hours of sleep this morning. It's a pretty rigorous schedule for someone as old as dirt, but I'm enjoying it.

by: BlueDeacon

09-11-2010 @ 3:31pm

What part of "The God of the muslims is the God of Abraham" do you not understand?

That statement is simply false.

by: squeaky

09-09-2010 @ 5:36pm

Why is it offensive?

Comments sorted by highest rated. After voting you must refresh your page to see the sort order change.

by: stockur

09-08-2010 @ 3:38pm

"extremists in caves who invoke their distorted brand of Muslim faith as they murder innocent people; and extremists in a Florida church who want to "send a message" to a billion Muslims around the world by threatening to burn hundreds of copies of the Quran in the name of their distorted brand of Christianity"

Please do not equate the extreme of book-burning with murder. This will seriously hamper your argument, particularly when it is your opening line. Remember, fairness and objectivity, Jim.

by: stockur

09-08-2010 @ 3:38pm

"extremists in caves who invoke their distorted brand of Muslim faith as they murder innocent people; and extremists in a Florida church who want to "send a message" to a billion Muslims around the world by threatening to burn hundreds of copies of the Quran in the name of their distorted brand of Christianity"

Please do not equate the extreme of book-burning with murder. This will seriously hamper your argument, particularly when it is your opening line. Remember, fairness and objectivity, Jim.

by: BlueDeacon

09-08-2010 @ 3:51pm

Beside the point -- this will actually provoke radical Muslims to murder. Which is what some folks want.

by: BlueDeacon

09-08-2010 @ 3:51pm

Beside the point -- this will actually provoke radical Muslims to murder. Which is what some folks want.

by: jsboegl

09-08-2010 @ 3:56pm

Thank you Jim for a well-reasoned article.
"If Jones and his followers go through with their plans to burn the Quran they might as well burn some Bibles too, because they are already destroying the teachings of Jesus. Jesus called his followers to be peacemakers, and to love not only their neighbors but even their enemies..."
I might add... "Jesus called His followers to LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES FOR THEIR ENEMIES..."
God's great love to you and His continued Spirit of peace to you.
JSB

by: jsboegl

09-08-2010 @ 3:56pm

Thank you Jim for a well-reasoned article.
"If Jones and his followers go through with their plans to burn the Quran they might as well burn some Bibles too, because they are already destroying the teachings of Jesus. Jesus called his followers to be peacemakers, and to love not only their neighbors but even their enemies..."
I might add... "Jesus called His followers to LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES FOR THEIR ENEMIES..."
God's great love to you and His continued Spirit of peace to you.
JSB

by: jsboegl

09-08-2010 @ 4:02pm

"You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.' But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire." (Jesus)

by: jsboegl

09-08-2010 @ 4:02pm

"You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.' But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire." (Jesus)

by: suzannah {ShoutLaughLove}

09-08-2010 @ 4:09pm

hate incites murder, and that is exactly what worries general patreaus.

on twitter, people are sending hope and peace filled images and messages (instead of more anger and hate) to the church @iiotd with the hashtag #loveburnsbrighter.

more info: http://mommymelee.com/2010/09/love-burns-brighter/

by: suzannah {ShoutLaughLove}

09-08-2010 @ 4:09pm

hate incites murder, and that is exactly what worries general patreaus.

on twitter, people are sending hope and peace filled images and messages (instead of more anger and hate) to the church @iiotd with the hashtag #loveburnsbrighter.

more info: http://mommymelee.com/2010/09/love-burns-brighter/

by: BlueDeacon

09-08-2010 @ 4:10pm

BTW, the general's last name is spelled Patraeus.

by: BlueDeacon

09-08-2010 @ 4:10pm

BTW, the general's last name is spelled Patraeus.

by: john316

09-08-2010 @ 4:14pm

If they are really burning hundreds of copies of the Quran, they are spending hundreds of dollars to first buy those copies. And if they purchased just a single copy and used that copies to generate hundreds of other copies, then they are literally taking resources that God has given them and expending it on a publicity stunt. So what is the "Christian Message" here except a gross distortion of the Gospel? Reminds me of the song, "If Just a Cup of Water I Place Within Your Hand..." I guess they will change the words to, If Just a Copy of the Quran I Place Within...

This entire episode will be successful only to the extent that it is covered by the media. If there is no video, or pictures, or news reports, then it will be like a tree falling in the forest. this sorry excuse for a pastor is depending on the complicity of the media, and I suspect that Fox and others will oblige him.

by: john316

09-08-2010 @ 4:14pm

If they are really burning hundreds of copies of the Quran, they are spending hundreds of dollars to first buy those copies. And if they purchased just a single copy and used that copies to generate hundreds of other copies, then they are literally taking resources that God has given them and expending it on a publicity stunt. So what is the "Christian Message" here except a gross distortion of the Gospel? Reminds me of the song, "If Just a Cup of Water I Place Within Your Hand..." I guess they will change the words to, If Just a Copy of the Quran I Place Within...

This entire episode will be successful only to the extent that it is covered by the media. If there is no video, or pictures, or news reports, then it will be like a tree falling in the forest. this sorry excuse for a pastor is depending on the complicity of the media, and I suspect that Fox and others will oblige him.

by: NeilS

09-08-2010 @ 4:27pm

This is the kind of hatred that Jesus condemned so strongly. I agree with Jim entirely and blogged about this yesterday:

http://bit.ly/bvLTAz

by: NeilS

09-08-2010 @ 4:27pm

This is the kind of hatred that Jesus condemned so strongly. I agree with Jim entirely and blogged about this yesterday:

http://bit.ly/bvLTAz

by: john316

09-08-2010 @ 4:44pm

The KKK did not burn crosses out in the middle of the woods where they would not be observed. Like the haters of previous generations, the message here is fear and intimidation.

by: john316

09-08-2010 @ 4:44pm

The KKK did not burn crosses out in the middle of the woods where they would not be observed. Like the haters of previous generations, the message here is fear and intimidation.

by: Ngchen

09-08-2010 @ 4:54pm

For the record, this proposed publicity stunt is a terrible thing. It is analogous to a declaration of war against Islam, depending on how many people participate and approve.

But playing devil's advocate, why is burning Qurans a bad thing, while cutting down Asherah poles was a good thing in the OT? OTOH, the apostles did not smash the Greek temples, and they're commended for not doing so. What facts distinguish these acts from each other?

by: Ngchen

09-08-2010 @ 4:54pm

For the record, this proposed publicity stunt is a terrible thing. It is analogous to a declaration of war against Islam, depending on how many people participate and approve.

But playing devil's advocate, why is burning Qurans a bad thing, while cutting down Asherah poles was a good thing in the OT? OTOH, the apostles did not smash the Greek temples, and they're commended for not doing so. What facts distinguish these acts from each other?

by: Ngchen

09-08-2010 @ 5:17pm

Something else I read this morning asked rhetorically - why has the planned Quran burning not brought the official condemnation from our government, the way moveon was blasted for their "General Betray Us" campaign? Let's not forget that both things were accused of undermining national security.

by: Ngchen

09-08-2010 @ 5:17pm

Something else I read this morning asked rhetorically - why has the planned Quran burning not brought the official condemnation from our government, the way moveon was blasted for their "General Betray Us" campaign? Let's not forget that both things were accused of undermining national security.

by: wbminn

09-08-2010 @ 5:55pm

You are 'preaching to the choir'. This is a group of 50 extremists who CLAIM to be christians. Yet the Bible tells us that 'we shall know them by their works.'

by: wbminn

09-08-2010 @ 5:55pm

You are 'preaching to the choir'. This is a group of 50 extremists who CLAIM to be christians. Yet the Bible tells us that 'we shall know them by their works.'

by: Daniel Scott

09-08-2010 @ 6:36pm

"But playing devil's advocate, why is burning Qurans a bad thing, while cutting down Asherah poles was a good thing in the OT?"

I'll take a stab at this, because it's a question I've pondered, too. If we look at the episodes of iconoclasm (not completely sure that's the right word, here, but you know what I mean) in the Bible and Church history, we see that they were acts of individual or communal repentance. Gideon cut down the Asherah pole in his own village. The believers in Ephesus burned their own magic scrolls. During the Reformation, the statues of saints were smashed by those who used to pray to them.
This event, in contrast, is an attack on the other. Rev. Jones and his church are not turning away from the teachings of Muhammed themselves. They are not burning books that have a spiritual or mental grip on their own community. And they won't bear the brunt of the blowback.

by: Daniel Scott

09-08-2010 @ 6:36pm

"But playing devil's advocate, why is burning Qurans a bad thing, while cutting down Asherah poles was a good thing in the OT?"

I'll take a stab at this, because it's a question I've pondered, too. If we look at the episodes of iconoclasm (not completely sure that's the right word, here, but you know what I mean) in the Bible and Church history, we see that they were acts of individual or communal repentance. Gideon cut down the Asherah pole in his own village. The believers in Ephesus burned their own magic scrolls. During the Reformation, the statues of saints were smashed by those who used to pray to them.
This event, in contrast, is an attack on the other. Rev. Jones and his church are not turning away from the teachings of Muhammed themselves. They are not burning books that have a spiritual or mental grip on their own community. And they won't bear the brunt of the blowback.

by: WaveTossed

09-08-2010 @ 6:42pm

I wonder if a counter-demonstration of true Christians and Muslims at this "Dove" center would send a good message. The signs could quote passages from the Bible and the Quran about peace. People could also sing hymns as well.

This would have to be a peaceful and very disciplined counter-demonstration. No violence or hurtful words at all.

by: WaveTossed

09-08-2010 @ 6:42pm

I wonder if a counter-demonstration of true Christians and Muslims at this "Dove" center would send a good message. The signs could quote passages from the Bible and the Quran about peace. People could also sing hymns as well.

This would have to be a peaceful and very disciplined counter-demonstration. No violence or hurtful words at all.

by: BlueDeacon

09-08-2010 @ 6:53pm

That's actually happening.

by: BlueDeacon

09-08-2010 @ 6:53pm

That's actually happening.

by: john316

09-08-2010 @ 6:55pm

Like the "NYC mosque" story that preceded it, this could have and should have remained a local story for local people to inform themselves about and react to. This pastor has a reputation for stirring up controvery as he did at his pastorate in Germany, and like other things that are stirred, smells bad.

Tossing books, Beatles records, or whatever some nutcase thinks is of the devil into the fire is nothing new - it just seems to attract more attention in this 24-hour news cycle.

by: john316

09-08-2010 @ 6:55pm

Like the "NYC mosque" story that preceded it, this could have and should have remained a local story for local people to inform themselves about and react to. This pastor has a reputation for stirring up controvery as he did at his pastorate in Germany, and like other things that are stirred, smells bad.

Tossing books, Beatles records, or whatever some nutcase thinks is of the devil into the fire is nothing new - it just seems to attract more attention in this 24-hour news cycle.

by: justintime

09-08-2010 @ 7:35pm

Why don't "prominent Christian, Muslim and Jewish leaders" propose an interfaith center at a site near Ground Zero?

by: justintime

09-08-2010 @ 7:35pm

Why don't "prominent Christian, Muslim and Jewish leaders" propose an interfaith center at a site near Ground Zero?

by: mjeinpenn

09-08-2010 @ 7:42pm

Thank you, Jim. I agree with you wholeheartedly. It is a shame that Terry Jones is getting any coverage. He is a disgrace to humanity and, unfortunately, an embarrassment to Christianity. Perhaps the world is once again in need of the prophetic voice and wisdom of Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel, who defined a "religious man" as one "who suffers harm done to others, whose greatest passion is compassion, whose greatest strength is love and defiance of despair." Jones would, of course, fail on all counts. Heschel also taught us that racism and bigotry are "man's gravest threat to man -- the maximum hatred for a minimum reason."

http://ehlersoneverything.blogspot.com

by: mjeinpenn

09-08-2010 @ 7:42pm

Thank you, Jim. I agree with you wholeheartedly. It is a shame that Terry Jones is getting any coverage. He is a disgrace to humanity and, unfortunately, an embarrassment to Christianity. Perhaps the world is once again in need of the prophetic voice and wisdom of Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel, who defined a "religious man" as one "who suffers harm done to others, whose greatest passion is compassion, whose greatest strength is love and defiance of despair." Jones would, of course, fail on all counts. Heschel also taught us that racism and bigotry are "man's gravest threat to man -- the maximum hatred for a minimum reason."

http://ehlersoneverything.blogspot.com

by: DJ9791

09-08-2010 @ 8:02pm

Rev Jones and his flock are just as much extremists as suicide bombers...they pervert their "faith" and are culpable in any crimes perpetrated in revenge for this outrage.

I agree that our government should "offically" condemn this act, even though it is within Rev Jones' rights to act this way. And while we're calling for condemnation, are there any folks who claim leadership of the Christian right condemning this? Maybe I missed it...of course, they get better news coverage (and make more money) if they continue to market their hate-filled version of Christianity.

Jesus weeps at the state of American Christianity.

Pray for Peace and Dare To Act!

by: DJ9791

09-08-2010 @ 8:02pm

Rev Jones and his flock are just as much extremists as suicide bombers...they pervert their "faith" and are culpable in any crimes perpetrated in revenge for this outrage.

I agree that our government should "offically" condemn this act, even though it is within Rev Jones' rights to act this way. And while we're calling for condemnation, are there any folks who claim leadership of the Christian right condemning this? Maybe I missed it...of course, they get better news coverage (and make more money) if they continue to market their hate-filled version of Christianity.

Jesus weeps at the state of American Christianity.

Pray for Peace and Dare To Act!

by: Ngchen

09-08-2010 @ 8:18pm

Another question: why haven't the somewhat far-right of our country applauded the Quran burning? After all, it would score political points for them. Or could it be that even they are afraid it would backfire by showcasing them as the extremists they are?

by: Ngchen

09-08-2010 @ 8:18pm

Another question: why haven't the somewhat far-right of our country applauded the Quran burning? After all, it would score political points for them. Or could it be that even they are afraid it would backfire by showcasing them as the extremists they are?

by: D Lowrey

09-08-2010 @ 8:36pm

I am going to propose something which will seem as ridiculous and self-serving as these "Christians" burning Koran's in Florida. Why don't pagans/atheists and such hold a Bible burning right down street within eye shot of this church with Bill Maher or other outspoken celebrity as the leader?

As a follower of Jesus...it bothers me that those who call themselves "Christians" are willing to exhibit the same behavior as those who hate them. I am ashamed to be even named the same as these type of people and wish there were some way to totally dissociate myself from people like this. On the other hand...we need to show others that Christ came to earth...died for our sins and rose again after three days as being victorious over sin. Guess this is too much of a radical message for those who are caught up in their publicity stunt.

by: D Lowrey

09-08-2010 @ 8:36pm

I am going to propose something which will seem as ridiculous and self-serving as these "Christians" burning Koran's in Florida. Why don't pagans/atheists and such hold a Bible burning right down street within eye shot of this church with Bill Maher or other outspoken celebrity as the leader?

As a follower of Jesus...it bothers me that those who call themselves "Christians" are willing to exhibit the same behavior as those who hate them. I am ashamed to be even named the same as these type of people and wish there were some way to totally dissociate myself from people like this. On the other hand...we need to show others that Christ came to earth...died for our sins and rose again after three days as being victorious over sin. Guess this is too much of a radical message for those who are caught up in their publicity stunt.

by: histrogeek

09-08-2010 @ 8:37pm

During the Crusader Era, there were Christian preachers (mainly Franciscans) who violently attacked the Quran and Muhammad. Their aim was not to convert Muslims but to provoke their own martyrdom, a kind of suicide preaching. Muslim officials tended to give these fellows a wide berth until the rhetoric became so nasty they felt compelled to act.
I mention this because at least these hate-mongers had a mission, to gain martyrdom. Nasty as their behavior was at least there was some Christian precedent for it (though less than many believe). But a provocation done for no obvious purpose besides revenge and petty publicity-seeking? Not so much.
If Rev. Jones and his flock really wish to show their commitment this vision of Christianity, then let them go to Saudi Arabia or Iran or Sudan and perform their stunt there. Otherwise they are the moral equivalent of devil-worshiping teenagers

by: histrogeek

09-08-2010 @ 8:37pm

During the Crusader Era, there were Christian preachers (mainly Franciscans) who violently attacked the Quran and Muhammad. Their aim was not to convert Muslims but to provoke their own martyrdom, a kind of suicide preaching. Muslim officials tended to give these fellows a wide berth until the rhetoric became so nasty they felt compelled to act.
I mention this because at least these hate-mongers had a mission, to gain martyrdom. Nasty as their behavior was at least there was some Christian precedent for it (though less than many believe). But a provocation done for no obvious purpose besides revenge and petty publicity-seeking? Not so much.
If Rev. Jones and his flock really wish to show their commitment this vision of Christianity, then let them go to Saudi Arabia or Iran or Sudan and perform their stunt there. Otherwise they are the moral equivalent of devil-worshiping teenagers

by: johnauer

09-08-2010 @ 8:53pm

Jesus appears in Qurans that will burn, more so his mother Mary

by: johnauer

09-08-2010 @ 8:53pm

Jesus appears in Qurans that will burn, more so his mother Mary

by: Patricia

09-08-2010 @ 9:42pm

"And if they purchased just a single copy and used that copies to generate hundreds of other copies..."

Then they are in violation of US copyright laws and ought to be arrested.

by: Patricia

09-08-2010 @ 9:42pm

"And if they purchased just a single copy and used that copies to generate hundreds of other copies..."

Then they are in violation of US copyright laws and ought to be arrested.

by: liamac

09-08-2010 @ 10:38pm

"The most powerful statement by the organizers of the planned September 11 bonfire would be to call it off in the name and love of Jesus Christ." To take it a step further, at this juncture, the only appropriate statement would be one of public repentance on the part of Rev. Jones and his flock. Whether or not they ever get around to burning the Qu'ran, they've already done terrible damage in the name of Jesus Christ.

by: liamac

09-08-2010 @ 10:38pm

"The most powerful statement by the organizers of the planned September 11 bonfire would be to call it off in the name and love of Jesus Christ." To take it a step further, at this juncture, the only appropriate statement would be one of public repentance on the part of Rev. Jones and his flock. Whether or not they ever get around to burning the Qu'ran, they've already done terrible damage in the name of Jesus Christ.