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Why I am Beginning a Fast Today

by Jim Wallis 03-28-2011 | 1:45pm
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  1. Because I am an evangelical Christian and the root of the word "evangelical" is found in the opening statement of Jesus in Luke 4, where Christ says he has come to bring "good news (the 'evangel') to the poor." So to be an evangelical Christian is to try and bring good news to poor people.
  2. Because some very bad news is happening to the poorest and most vulnerable people in Washington's battle over the budget -- both those at home and around the world.
  3. Because budgets are moral documents -- they reveal our priorities, who and what is important, and who and what are not. To address excessive deficits is also a moral issue -- preventing our children and grandchildren from having crushing debt. But how you reduce a deficit is also a moral issue. We should reduce the deficit, but not at the expense of our poorest people.
  4. Because it is simply wrong -- morally and religiously -- to focus our budget cuts on the people who are already hurting, and make them hurt more. Programs that are effectively reducing poverty should not be cut. They should be made as effective as possible, but not cut.
  5. Because there is a selective cruelty going on in this budget debate. Instead of focusing on where the real money is, some budget cutters are actually targeting vital and effective programs that support and protect poor people and some initiatives that are literally saving lives. It was not spending on poor people that created this deficit, and these drastic cuts in programs that help poor people will do little to get us out of our deficit.
  6. Because to really reduce the deficit, we should put everything on the table, especially the biggest public outlays in military spending, corporate subsidies and tax loopholes, long term health-care costs etc. -- all of which could actually reduce the deficit, when much smaller poverty programs will not. Last night, 60 Minutes exposed $60 billion lost in revenue to corporate tax havens in Switzerland -- enough to protect many programs for the poor.
  7. Because there is a difference between deficit hawks -- some of whom I know, respect, and work with on restoring fiscal health -- and deficit hypocrites, who won't go to where the real money is, but go instead to the poor, who have little political clout in Washington to defend themselves, and are an easy targets to score political points with a political base. We do not fast today against fiscal responsibility, but against political hypocrisy.
  8. Because those of us who are Christians are bound by Jesus' command to protect the least of these. So people of faith ask, "What Would Jesus Cut?" The extreme budget cuts proposed to critical programs that save the lives, dignity, and future of poor and vulnerable people have crossed a moral line. Politicians have only just begun to hear from the many church leaders who are ready to wage the good fight over these bad decisions. This crisis is bringing us together. Those with money and armies of lobbyists have their interests protected. They won't bear the burden of reducing the deficit. But the work to protect the poor is a Christian vocation and obligation, and we will be faithful to it.
  9. Because I am blessed to be in the company of dear brothers and sisters, Tony Hall, David Beckmann, Ritu Sharma, the 38 organizations that have joined this fast coalition, and the growing movement of people of faith and conscience who together intend to form a circle of protection around vital poverty-fighting programs. Every Christian, regardless of their political affiliation, is called to take up the cause of the poor and the needy because that is God's heart, and we will be calling every legislator who says they are a Christian or person of conscience to listen to God's heart as they make their decisions.
  10. Because, ultimately, this is a fast before God, to whom we turn in prayer and hope to change hearts -- our hearts, the heart of our lawmakers, the heart of the nation. We will pray and fast, each of us in our own ways, for mercy, compassion, wisdom, strength, and courage as we make the critical budget choices about who and what are most important. A line has been crossed in this budget debate; extreme budget cuts are now being proposed and this fast is a spiritual escalation to bring these critical moral choices to the attention of the nation, and to seek God's help in doing so. "Is not this the fast that I choose," says the prophet Isaiah, "to loose bonds of injustice
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by: Nathan Larsen

03-30-2011 @ 2:40pm

I fail to see why we should stop with the government budget. How about churches? How much do we spend on ourselves and our fancy state of the art buildings and sound systems? Lets look at our budgets and make sure they meet up with what we claim. Lots of churches spend more than 90% on their own needs and fail to do much of anything outside of that.
On a different note, I don't see why the government should be the ones to take care of the poor. Or are we trying to impose our Christian beliefs on those that don't want them? (Isn't that the problem a lot people have with the religious right, imposing their beliefs on everyone else). Second the government just isn't very good at providing for the poor. Money and checks are not the answer. We need less programs and more individual attention and care. We need a holistic approach to ministry that only the Church can provide. I view this backing out of taking care of the poor (by the government) as a chance for us to reverse the great reversal. For the Church to take its rightful place as the defender of the poor. That is my hope, and desire.
I don't have statistics, but I don't find it too odd that the gap between the poor and rich has gotten wider (multiple times) since the great reversal. We need the Church to be relevant again, and this gives us a great opportunity.
Saying all this, I think there is lots to be cut (both defense and non-defense spending) and that both the Republicans and Democrats aren't doing enough. Lastly, I don't think that by paying my taxes I am caring for the poor, the naked, the prisoner. Those are things that I have to choose to invest in, both personally and with my Church.

by: BlueDeacon

03-30-2011 @ 2:58pm

On a different note, I don't see why the government should be the ones to take care of the poor. Or are we trying to impose our Christian beliefs on those that don't want them? (Isn't that the problem a lot people have with the religious right, imposing their beliefs on everyone else).

It's really about allowing the poor to make their own way, which isn't happening right now because that would require restructuring of society, including reallocation of some resources -- which if the real issue. The problem with the religious right is not religion itself; it's that it uses religion to gain social and political power.

by: Jennifer A. Nolan

03-30-2011 @ 10:07pm

Yes, and that's deliberate. We proles, and those who allege to help us, get Joe Hill's exhortation tail-backwards by the way we conduct ourselves, especially on matters of politics and advocacy. For all the real efforts out there, (LATELY) especially in Wisconsin and Florida (those Immokalee tomato fields again), we haven't scored a victory against the moneybags in decades. I was very little during the '60's and early '70's, and even I can remember when things were somewhat different.

by: allan38775

04-09-2011 @ 5:00am

This really isn't about bigger government or smaller government. The issue is whether it is a government that demonstates compassion to the poor and vulnerable or one that continues to be rigged to further enrich the already wealthy. Oddly, when people claim they want a smaller government, they usually aren't talking about reducing our 780 billion a year military budget (more than all the rest of the world put together), arguing against the bailout of Wall Street CEOs (who rewarded themselves after nearly destroying the economy by givng themselves 145 billion in bonuses with our tax dollars), our 3 trillion dollar war or massive oil subsidies to an industry showing record profits. Instead, somehow, "small government" always means deeper and deeper cuts to the poor. Anybody care to explain that?

by: allan38775

04-09-2011 @ 5:00am

This really isn't about bigger government or smaller government. The issue is whether it is a government that demonstates compassion to the poor and vulnerable or one that continues to be rigged to further enrich the already wealthy. Oddly, when people claim they want a smaller government, they usually aren't talking about reducing our 780 billion a year military budget (more than all the rest of the world put together), arguing against the bailout of Wall Street CEOs (who rewarded themselves after nearly destroying the economy by givng themselves 145 billion in bonuses with our tax dollars), our 3 trillion dollar war or massive oil subsidies to an industry showing record profits. Instead, somehow, "small government" always means deeper and deeper cuts to the poor. Anybody care to explain that?

by: Patricia

03-30-2011 @ 6:59pm

If you honestly believe Mr Wallis was not concerned about budgetary morality before, you have not been reading Sojourners for very long. I suggest you check the archives.

Please check your facts.

Document your claim, for instance, that "no one" uses light rail. This is factually not true in New York City, Washington DC, San Francisco, Portland, OR, and more recently Seattle, WA, and other cities who provide light rail-type mass transit. The truth is that MANY people use it, and the more there is, the more it is utilized.

Social Security is not an "unfunded liability." The only money that goes into the Social Security fund is Social Security taxes. Even though more is currently being paid out than is coming in, there is a surplus in that fund right now. You are correct that as more baby-boomers retire and fewer workers enter the workplace, a shortfall is expected. This shortfall can be dealt with by changing the age at which people become eligible to recieve full benefits to 70, especially since many, many people who lost their entire retirement savings invested in "the market" are going to have to work longer now, anyway.

Medicare can also be adjusted. The best solution would be to make changes in the program and expand it to everyone, and fund it with a health care tax. This tax would be paid in lieu of a private corporate insurance premium - we would move to single payer health insurance. Single payer health insurance HAS BEEN PROVEN to be much more cost effective and to provide citizens with better health care than the corporate system we have now. Also, if everyone were covered by Medicare, we would not need the Medicaid program.

Cutting programs which assist the poor is NOT the way to balance the budget. Cutting corporate welfare, closing corporate tax loopholes, and returning income tax rates to what they were during the Clinton administration should all come before cutting the programs that help the most vulnerable among us.

And, always, always, always tell the truth!

by: Patricia

03-30-2011 @ 7:02pm

I think you are confusing imposing Christian beliefs with legitimate governmental roles in promoting the general welfare of its citizens.

And I can see that it might be insulting to those of other faith traditions or even no faith traditions to imply that ONLY Christians believe in helping the poor. The reason we, as a people, see a role for government in this area is specifically because that belief transcends particular religious faiths and philosophies, and is, in fact, a common value among us all.

by: Nathan Larsen

03-31-2011 @ 3:35am

"It's really about allowing the poor to make their own way, which isn't happening right now because that would require restructuring of society"

So are you saying that the fast is about letting the poor make their own way by giving them handouts. And also that what we currently have (with government welfare systems) isn't working? If (Leveling the field) that is the case, why do Democrats cancel the voucher program in the inner city schools of Washington D.C. that allow poor parents to send their kids to better schools?
My biggest issue with the fast is the apparent mentality that the government has a duty to give handouts to the poor. I am all for justice and equal opportunity. But government systems aren't effective in reducing poverty. I think poverty is so rampant in our society, because the church has backed away from poverty alleviation and has watched the government flounder away at trying to solve the problem. The problem is the Church has become irrelevant. The church doesn't need to sit and cheer government spending on, the Church needs to evaluate what is important to it (God) and how that looks, both in their budgets and activities. Why doesn't Jim Wallis and company go after the way churches use their resources. Why get mad at the government and not mad at the Church which has repeated and direct quotes from God to take care of the widows and orphans.

by: Nathan Larsen

03-31-2011 @ 3:45am

I think it is important to define the general welfare of its citizens. I think that a lot of the money and time spent by the government trying to solve poverty ends up making it worse. How many government operations are efficient. To do anything you have to take a number, come back later, or go to multiple places to do simple tasks. I have worked with a number of poor people and I don't know anyone that has felt empowered by having to sign up for benefits or government programs. A lot of the time the programs reduce any remains confidence the people have in their worth and frustrate them out of control. Filling out the same paperwork over and over, waiting 2 plus years for a housing voucher, getting kicked of DSHS (Department of Social and human services here in WA) over a small pay raise, and so they can't afford child care, or food, just because they make more than they used to. I feel like it is only lying to ourselves to think that the government programs make any real lasting change (although I'm sure there are some cases out there).
I think that real change and real poverty alleviation can only come through the Church, with a wholistic approach to poverty. The fast should spend some time looking for ways the church can step up and fill the gaps the government is leaving. Poverty alleviation can only come through real relationships with those that are in need, and we all are in need. And the government is unable to provide a friend for each of us, to the government poverty will always be about numbers. Poverty has nothing to do with numbers, it has to do with real people that God made and loves deeply. And that God calls me to love each of them and serve them as if I were serving Christ himself.

by: BlueDeacon

03-31-2011 @ 3:59am

Well, look at it this way. Such "handouts" as Head Start and educational grants and low-interest loans will actually pay dividends down the road because those programs have the potential to lift folks out of poverty (and in fact have already done so). And even if we were talking about direct cash payments, keep in mind that those folks will spend it with local merchants and keep people in jobs. I worked in grocery stores for a total of nine years, and they were pretty busy and always in need of help.

The reason it wouldn't be productive to "go after the way churches use their resources" is because most churches are way too small to do any serious diaconal ministry. Besides, social service is not the church's primary calling; it does so effectively only to the extent that its membership has been helped because it would understand from personal experience just what the poor actually needs vis-a-vis what it simply wants to give.

by: BlueDeacon

03-31-2011 @ 4:40am

If (Leveling the field) that is the case, why do Democrats cancel the voucher program in the inner city schools of Washington D.C. that allow poor parents to send their kids to better schools?

It actually has the opposite effect in that you already have to have money in the first place to send your kid to a private school. Basically, the public schools lose only their best students under voucher programs, and besides, they really don't have all that much effect.

by: Jennifer A. Nolan

03-30-2011 @ 10:07pm

Yes, and that's deliberate. We proles, and those who allege to help us, get Joe Hill's exhortation tail-backwards by the way we conduct ourselves, especially on matters of politics and advocacy. For all the real efforts out there, (LATELY) especially in Wisconsin and Florida (those Immokalee tomato fields again), we haven't scored a victory against the moneybags in decades. I was very little during the '60's and early '70's, and even I can remember when things were somewhat different.

by: Jennifer A. Nolan

03-31-2011 @ 1:07pm

Here again a toot of US Uncut's horn. usuncut.org!!!

by: Jennifer A. Nolan

03-31-2011 @ 1:13pm

Hey, buddy -- check your spelling!! I could hardly read that first paragraph!

by: Jennifer A. Nolan

03-31-2011 @ 1:28pm

Yes, some "homeless and hungry" can and do organize, often pretty effectively! Joe Hill and the other Wobblies, the "Bonus Army" of unemployed WWI veterans during the Depression, the young poor of France in 1968, and, of course, our black protesters and some of their white sympathizers around the same time. Here's another poor man who could mold himself into a good activist: Cesar Chavez of United Farm Workers fame. And some more: Sojourner Truth, Mother Jones, Booker T. Washington, who began Tuskegee Institute from scratch, Mary McLeod Bethune. Some of the best advocates for the poor started at the bottom: that's where they got their authority and their authenticity, not that upper-class advocates are any less admirable. And, for another twist on what people are capable of enduring: the Beats and the hippies, who squatted in unheated flats and lived in cars and vans, choosing poverty and homelessness as a deliberate attempt to escape the stifling embrace of respectability. Perhaps a few of us should do the same.

by: liberalinlove

03-28-2011 @ 5:16pm

I cannot argue with the word of God!
Isaiah 58
"Shout it aloud, do not hold back.
Raise your voice like a trumpet.
Declare to my people their rebellion
and to the descendants of Jacob their sins.
2 For day after day they seek me out;
they seem eager to know my ways,
as if they were a nation that does what is right
and has not forsaken the commands of its God.
They ask me for just decisions
and seem eager for God to come near them.
3 'Why have we fasted,' they say,
'and you have not seen it?
Why have we humbled ourselves,
and you have not noticed?'
"Yet on the day of your fasting, you do as you please
and exploit all your workers.
4 Your fasting ends in quarreling and strife,
and in striking each other with wicked fists.
You cannot fast as you do today
and expect your voice to be heard on high.
5 Is this the kind of fast I have chosen,
only a day for people to humble themselves?
Is it only for bowing one's head like a reed
and for lying in sackcloth and ashes?
Is that what you call a fast,
a day acceptable to the LORD?

6 "Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter-
when you see the naked, to clothe them,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?
8 Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your healing will quickly appear;
then your righteousness[a] will go before you,
and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard.
9 Then you will call, and the LORD will answer;
you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I.

by: Patricia

03-31-2011 @ 2:31pm

Nathan, the reason so many people have to wait so long and lose their assistance so easily is because we are so miserly in our assistance. Look at the federal social services budgets COMPARED TO agribusiness subsidies, fossil fuel subsidies, and the department of defense - the numbers tell the story.

You have an opinion about tax-funded assistance programs. What would happen if you actually checked out the basis of that opinion beyond your personal experience and found the reality quite a bit different from what you think?

by: Nathan Larsen

03-31-2011 @ 2:35pm

" because most churches are way too small to do any serious diaconal ministry."

I don't think that this is true. So many congregations have 2 or 3 pastors (or more). Small churches of 300 have budgets of 500,000 or a million dollars. It's about priorities. I think the budgets could be even higher if people saw that they were doing something with that money. Hiring people with social services degrees to complement the pastors. If the churches started coming along side the people that come by seeking assistance instead of giving them $5 and sending them on their way. Or churches can group together in their neighborhood. Right now there is a push in a nearby town to build a transitional housing for single mom's by business leaders and churches in the community. The building is all volunteer based and money is raised from (or by) many of the same volunteers.
When my church (church of 300) went to build houses in Mexico, we raised the funds for 4 houses in a matter of a couple of weeks. The generosity is in the Church, they just need to have the reasons to give. If the Church can't than no one can.

Education all comes down to the parent and if they are able to instill good foundations (Head start can only help if the parent helps). I think the important thing is that government 'handouts' can help, but they are most successful when the person (arguably) is most dedicated to getting out of the situation. And it could be argued that if the church was effective in its ministry then those same people would get out. The problem isn't the people that get out or would get out, if they are truly determined and get a little help they will get out. The problem is the rest of that get left behind. Just like your complaint about the best kids leaving the public schools, when people do get college degrees they often leave the 'troubled' community and that community is darker, (the individual light is brighter no doubt).

by: BlueDeacon

03-31-2011 @ 3:09pm

Small churches of 300 have budgets of 500,000 or a million dollars. It's about priorities. I think the budgets could be even higher if people saw that they were doing something with that money.

However, most of that money goes to staff salaries and benefits and upkeep of the facilities, and if the church is evangelical some will go to foreign missions. Only a pittance goes for diaconal ministry.

OTOH, you still need a lot of money to do that kind of ministry. My own church has it, but it's a large congregation and, since it's close to our two major-league stadiums, the church home of a number of professional athletes. That said, my senior pastor doesn't simply argue for "charity"; he understands from being out there that fundamental structural change is needed. And that's what's being fought.

I think the important thing is that government 'handouts' can help, but they are most successful when the person (arguably) is most dedicated to getting out of the situation.

In fact, most do; one statistic I saw some years ago noted that 92 percent of people on welfare do manage to get off within two years. Here's another one: 45 percent who get benefits represent children too young to work.

by: Lord_Voldemort

03-28-2011 @ 7:02pm

"When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

LV

by: Nathan Larsen

03-31-2011 @ 3:35am

"It's really about allowing the poor to make their own way, which isn't happening right now because that would require restructuring of society"

So are you saying that the fast is about letting the poor make their own way by giving them handouts. And also that what we currently have (with government welfare systems) isn't working? If (Leveling the field) that is the case, why do Democrats cancel the voucher program in the inner city schools of Washington D.C. that allow poor parents to send their kids to better schools?
My biggest issue with the fast is the apparent mentality that the government has a duty to give handouts to the poor. I am all for justice and equal opportunity. But government systems aren't effective in reducing poverty. I think poverty is so rampant in our society, because the church has backed away from poverty alleviation and has watched the government flounder away at trying to solve the problem. The problem is the Church has become irrelevant. The church doesn't need to sit and cheer government spending on, the Church needs to evaluate what is important to it (God) and how that looks, both in their budgets and activities. Why doesn't Jim Wallis and company go after the way churches use their resources. Why get mad at the government and not mad at the Church which has repeated and direct quotes from God to take care of the widows and orphans.

by: Nathan Larsen

03-31-2011 @ 3:45am

I think it is important to define the general welfare of its citizens. I think that a lot of the money and time spent by the government trying to solve poverty ends up making it worse. How many government operations are efficient. To do anything you have to take a number, come back later, or go to multiple places to do simple tasks. I have worked with a number of poor people and I don't know anyone that has felt empowered by having to sign up for benefits or government programs. A lot of the time the programs reduce any remains confidence the people have in their worth and frustrate them out of control. Filling out the same paperwork over and over, waiting 2 plus years for a housing voucher, getting kicked of DSHS (Department of Social and human services here in WA) over a small pay raise, and so they can't afford child care, or food, just because they make more than they used to. I feel like it is only lying to ourselves to think that the government programs make any real lasting change (although I'm sure there are some cases out there).
I think that real change and real poverty alleviation can only come through the Church, with a wholistic approach to poverty. The fast should spend some time looking for ways the church can step up and fill the gaps the government is leaving. Poverty alleviation can only come through real relationships with those that are in need, and we all are in need. And the government is unable to provide a friend for each of us, to the government poverty will always be about numbers. Poverty has nothing to do with numbers, it has to do with real people that God made and loves deeply. And that God calls me to love each of them and serve them as if I were serving Christ himself.

by: duhsciple

03-28-2011 @ 9:01pm

Jonah 3:5-10

And the people of Nineveh believed God; they proclaimed a fast, and everyone, great and small, put on sackcloth. When the news reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, removed his robe, covered himself with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. Then he had a proclamation made in Nineveh: "By the decree of the king and his nobles: No human being or animal, no herd or flock, shall taste anything. They shall not feed, nor shall they drink water. Human beings and animals shall be covered with sackcloth, and they shall cry mightily to God. All shall turn from their evil ways and from the violence that is in their hands. Who knows? God may relent and change his mind; he may turn from his fierce anger, so that we do not perish." When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil ways, God changed his mind about the calamity that he had said he would bring upon them; and he did not do it.

by: BlueDeacon

03-31-2011 @ 3:59am

Well, look at it this way. Such "handouts" as Head Start and educational grants and low-interest loans will actually pay dividends down the road because those programs have the potential to lift folks out of poverty (and in fact have already done so). And even if we were talking about direct cash payments, keep in mind that those folks will spend it with local merchants and keep people in jobs. I worked in grocery stores for a total of nine years, and they were pretty busy and always in need of help.

The reason it wouldn't be productive to "go after the way churches use their resources" is because most churches are way too small to do any serious diaconal ministry. Besides, social service is not the church's primary calling; it does so effectively only to the extent that its membership has been helped because it would understand from personal experience just what the poor actually needs vis-a-vis what it simply wants to give.

by: duhsciple

03-28-2011 @ 9:06pm

Yes, we should join Jim Wallis, Tony Hall, David Beckmann, and Ritu Sharma-- doing what is just, making sure that the ones who are hurting the most are not beaten down even more, not as hypocrites or show offs, but in order that God might help us to avert the calamity of financial and spiritual ruin. May we learn to hunger and thirst for the justice of God.

by: BlueDeacon

03-31-2011 @ 4:40am

If (Leveling the field) that is the case, why do Democrats cancel the voucher program in the inner city schools of Washington D.C. that allow poor parents to send their kids to better schools?

It actually has the opposite effect in that you already have to have money in the first place to send your kid to a private school. Basically, the public schools lose only their best students under voucher programs, and besides, they really don't have all that much effect.

by: Jack Meoff

03-28-2011 @ 9:24pm

Jim:

Just like professional hockey - outside of those cities where NHL teams play - your fast can be summed up simply:

No one's watching. No one cares.

Get over yourself. Do something profoundly humble for once, behind the scenes, without being a glory whore. You continually expose yourself for the leftist fraud you are.

Sincerely,
Real Christian America

by: Jack Meoff

03-28-2011 @ 9:26pm

Good call. Apostle-to-no one and prophet-of-leftist-doom Jim Wallis would do well to heed the scripture you quoted about HUMILITY in fasting.

Though, it would be proper to add the source, as with any material you are quoting.

by: Fellatia Longwood

03-28-2011 @ 9:36pm

The Lord calls the fast, not Jim Wallis or any other person, especially one such as Wallis hell-bent on seeing America turn into the former Soviet Union.

What a jackhole!

by: Mick Sheldon

03-28-2011 @ 10:19pm

Duhsciple I can agree with the ends , but the mechanism Mr Wallis is praying for is possibly not the mechanism God will or would use .

If you believed in smaller government , more local control in government , and thought that indeed would help more people in the long run your out of the loop here , in fact looked upon as immoral and anti God . This fast seems to take on the notion God has a problem with that belief system or people who believe that smaller government works better . Freedom has promoted our living standard , not hurt it .

1.6 trillion dollars will be spent this year that we have to borrow.
Interesting just read Nadia's blog about Limiting God's gift of salvation , limiting salvation to only those who accept Christ as their Lord and Savior is wrong headed . yet over hear we have to limit God's methods to liberal progressive political view points .

If that is God's Will . I am for it . But you would never prove it by the folks who speak here or what the blogs say and negatively portray those who disagree with them . I would also like to say you are not in that number , but this being an Evangelical blog is insincere . The call to fasting appears to be for the sake of publicity to gain the attention of politicians , not God .

Sorry but that is what it looks like .

by: 30_lapenseuse07

03-28-2011 @ 10:43pm

Jim Wallis's words are a clarion call to me and all of us who claim to be followers of Christ, impelling us to go beyond abstaining from coffee and chocolate to action that makes a deeper demand on us, one that is truly sacrificial. I firmly believe that Christ, through Jim's words, is calling us to be "doers of the Word" rather than just "hearers."

However, unless I missed it, there is one crucial word absent from Jim's post: Love. Yes, we must have courage, commitment, strength, and wisdom. But I am reminded that all of our efforts, however noble and well-intentioned, will be like that "clanging bell" mentioned in Corinthians, if there is no love. Love for God and love for the poor must be the foundation of our actions. And if we are honest with ourselves, we must acknowledge that more often than not, love is NOT what motivates even our noblest actions on their behalf. We are repelled, embarrassed by and fearful of the poor. Therefore, Love - not just pity and outrage - must be present.

by: Rakkasan

03-28-2011 @ 10:56pm

I disagree Mick. I think it's a good thing if good can come out of it. People matter and need our help, especially vulnerable people, and money is only a tool. I think God would appreciate us saving people rather than dollars but then again I'm not a religious scholar.

by: Patricia

03-28-2011 @ 11:00pm

I think the way you are seeing is a problem of your ideology coloring your interpretation, both of what we "believe" here, and coloring your interpretation of what Mr Wallis and other Christian leaders feel called to do in response to the immoral (and unnecessary, BTW) choices being made in response to our debt crisis.

To clarify one more time, what most people are saying here is that there are corporate welfare programs that account for a much larger chunk of our debt crisis than these social programs they seek to cut. What we are saying here is, if the 1.6 trilliion (or whatever figure) deficit is REALLY the problem we seek to address, cuts ought to be made to THOSE programs - the programs that benefit the richest and most powerful among us - BEFORE cutting the very small in comparison programs that assist the weakest and most vulnerable among us.

Why do you thing God would have a problem with the rich giving up some of their surplus before more substance is taken away from the poor?

And, what, exactly, does any of this have to do with "freedom"? That seems like a real red herring to me. Freedom thrives under several different economic models and government sizes. Just look around at the rest of the world - you'll see lots of free people with government and economic systems different from what you see as the only way.

by: duhsciple

03-28-2011 @ 11:18pm

Mick, the first time I ever fasted for more than 24 hours was last week. It was because of this budget issue-- at the invitation of the "Bread for the World" president. The government programs that I care about the most, as a part of my following Jesus, are the ones being cut the most. It sounds like you disagree with me, plus many of the authors and commentators on this blog.

To persuade me that my support of these government programs is ill advised, I need to see how churches could make up the difference so that people do not fall through the cracks. Given that the food pantries supported by churches are struggling, I fail to see how this could happen. I would need to see how mosquito nets and anti-AIDS drugs would be funded. I know people who are falling through the cracks.

Even if I was such a faithful Jesus follower that I gave away 100% of my income, I would not be able to meet the needs of the people I know who who benefited from government "safety nets". However, with my fellow citizens, together, we can meet the need. Since we live in a democracy, I advocate for this viewpoint. Now, it seems, the time has come for me to step up to the plate. I will be fasting. Maybe it will need to be an extended fast-- to really identify with those who are not eating because they have no choice-- even to the point that my own health is endangered.

You see some of my friends as insincere. I take your perception, what you are sorry to see, to heart, as you see in the lengthy response. I see that I will need to be very Christ centered and generous, knowing that others, such as yourself, will be looking at me very carefully. Jesus has spoken to me through your words. I need to fast. I need to be gracious. All the best, duh

by: Jennifer A. Nolan

03-31-2011 @ 1:07pm

Here again a toot of US Uncut's horn. usuncut.org!!!

by: letjusticerolldown

03-28-2011 @ 11:12pm

I like a blog where the first three comments are persons just posting scripture. I wish I could read the news and read blogs and have the first thing that came to my mind a passage of scripture and a heart of obedience.

Whether persons agree or disagree with the policy goals of Sojo--the moral question at the heart of this action is one that all can engage in good faith. I appreciate J Wallis' distinction between deficit hawks and deficit hypocrites which should basically answer Mick Sheldon's comment.

by: Jennifer A. Nolan

03-31-2011 @ 1:13pm

Hey, buddy -- check your spelling!! I could hardly read that first paragraph!

by: Jennifer A. Nolan

03-31-2011 @ 1:28pm

Yes, some "homeless and hungry" can and do organize, often pretty effectively! Joe Hill and the other Wobblies, the "Bonus Army" of unemployed WWI veterans during the Depression, the young poor of France in 1968, and, of course, our black protesters and some of their white sympathizers around the same time. Here's another poor man who could mold himself into a good activist: Cesar Chavez of United Farm Workers fame. And some more: Sojourner Truth, Mother Jones, Booker T. Washington, who began Tuskegee Institute from scratch, Mary McLeod Bethune. Some of the best advocates for the poor started at the bottom: that's where they got their authority and their authenticity, not that upper-class advocates are any less admirable. And, for another twist on what people are capable of enduring: the Beats and the hippies, who squatted in unheated flats and lived in cars and vans, choosing poverty and homelessness as a deliberate attempt to escape the stifling embrace of respectability. Perhaps a few of us should do the same.

by: Mick Sheldon

03-29-2011 @ 2:00am

Duh I am not trying to persuade you at all in your political beliefs . No doubt if you believe it is immoral to cut the budget that hurts certain programs , how could I or why would I persuade you different . I disagree . And I also thought is was wrong for a Minister of the Gospel to call for the Fast in this matter .

I was pointing out that say it would have been something I , an Evangelical Christian could understand and even participate in if the end result was helping the poor, without a political ideology attached to it . Remember the loaves of bread and fish our Lord fed to the thousands . You think a fast telling Jesus how to pull that off would be a good idea ? Why LIMIT His methods to your world and political view . ?

If I called a fast say from a Wall Street Banking Point Of View to increase the DOW by 1000 points so more people could have food to eat because of the jobs that would come along with it , and also stop the immoral regulation that impeded the growth of business to help the multitudes... would you join in ? I would not . What happens if some of those who prosper from de regulation do something that huts our environment , or what happens say your way if we allow our budget to continue to run in deficits and the poor actually start dying in other countries because of the financial impact that has on them also . You do realize our debt hurts the poor all over the world . It hurts our poor here also .

Oh no the church is far from being able now to feed the poor , all the poor . But we are commanded to do that . Doing it through government is something I believe often hurts in the long run if the program is not run properly , good government programs from my view point are ones that allow people to no longer need them after a while . You have not persuaded me that is an appropriate political response either. After Trillions in debt and still so many needing help clearly is the proof I need to persuade myself that government in the way it has been behaving in the answer to the problems of the poor .

The debt crisis will cause the next generation even harsher cuts if it is not addressed . My view there has to be some cuts to those in need, there is not enough money unless you actually steal it from people to keep this spending up . If you steal it , those making the money will stop working as hard to make it . Its been the down fall of socialism and communism . Its you my brother who needs to persuade the vast majority of Americans that communism or socialism is better . If your addressing me as an Evangelical , which I am and I believe you are , you are in the minority , not I . Not that proves anything .
Just your side has lost many in the ranks of Evangelical support as of late , increasingly so . Not for for your objectives , but the methods .

But you need proof that the churches can make of the difference ? Well statistically there is proof that the government will soon not be able to . It already has come to the point where we are in the danger zone . The churches making up the difference , well I believe God can make up the difference . In North America we suffer , as I do also , with needing proof . Not trusting God . Africa, China , and other places the Gospel is gaining in leaps and bounds .
people are being healed , Aids is being cured , the blind are seeing , ears are opening . miracles , miracles miracles . In America we require proof . The church is so cerebral it has lost its Heart . Lukewarm . You want an act of God , call the 1800 hotline to your legislator .

In my understanding I would have said we need to pray that the numbers effected by the cuts will be helped and blessed with the Mercy of our Lord . That means somehow staying on a government program , or God finding them a job , maybe it means a friend being motivated to help them by the Holy Spirit . I have only fasted myself for local issues , such as revival or something pertaining to a ministry .Just rubbed me the wrong way . Please do not endanger your health , I do not believe God ever wants us to that .

Love In Christ,

by: Patricia

03-31-2011 @ 2:31pm

Nathan, the reason so many people have to wait so long and lose their assistance so easily is because we are so miserly in our assistance. Look at the federal social services budgets COMPARED TO agribusiness subsidies, fossil fuel subsidies, and the department of defense - the numbers tell the story.

You have an opinion about tax-funded assistance programs. What would happen if you actually checked out the basis of that opinion beyond your personal experience and found the reality quite a bit different from what you think?

by: Nathan Larsen

03-31-2011 @ 2:35pm

" because most churches are way too small to do any serious diaconal ministry."

I don't think that this is true. So many congregations have 2 or 3 pastors (or more). Small churches of 300 have budgets of 500,000 or a million dollars. It's about priorities. I think the budgets could be even higher if people saw that they were doing something with that money. Hiring people with social services degrees to complement the pastors. If the churches started coming along side the people that come by seeking assistance instead of giving them $5 and sending them on their way. Or churches can group together in their neighborhood. Right now there is a push in a nearby town to build a transitional housing for single mom's by business leaders and churches in the community. The building is all volunteer based and money is raised from (or by) many of the same volunteers.
When my church (church of 300) went to build houses in Mexico, we raised the funds for 4 houses in a matter of a couple of weeks. The generosity is in the Church, they just need to have the reasons to give. If the Church can't than no one can.

Education all comes down to the parent and if they are able to instill good foundations (Head start can only help if the parent helps). I think the important thing is that government 'handouts' can help, but they are most successful when the person (arguably) is most dedicated to getting out of the situation. And it could be argued that if the church was effective in its ministry then those same people would get out. The problem isn't the people that get out or would get out, if they are truly determined and get a little help they will get out. The problem is the rest of that get left behind. Just like your complaint about the best kids leaving the public schools, when people do get college degrees they often leave the 'troubled' community and that community is darker, (the individual light is brighter no doubt).

by: Robin Brown Finnell

03-29-2011 @ 3:51am

Mick, I totally agree with you.

Where, in all of scripture, does it say that government programs should feed the hungry, clothe the naked, heal the sick? Can you imagine in Jesus' time the Romans taking over and socializing programs for the poor? They would just assume kill all the Jews (and Christians) in Israel for the real estate and strategic military values.

WE, my friends... the Body of Christ, meaning the Church are commanded to do this. Why should we let the government step in and enable us to shirk our God ordained task? While we're in deep now, if these programs get cut, then WE, the Body of Christ, NEED to step in and fill the gap.

Are we prepared to do so? I don't think we are in this culture of superficial acquisition.

by: BlueDeacon

03-31-2011 @ 3:09pm

Small churches of 300 have budgets of 500,000 or a million dollars. It's about priorities. I think the budgets could be even higher if people saw that they were doing something with that money.

However, most of that money goes to staff salaries and benefits and upkeep of the facilities, and if the church is evangelical some will go to foreign missions. Only a pittance goes for diaconal ministry.

OTOH, you still need a lot of money to do that kind of ministry. My own church has it, but it's a large congregation and, since it's close to our two major-league stadiums, the church home of a number of professional athletes. That said, my senior pastor doesn't simply argue for "charity"; he understands from being out there that fundamental structural change is needed. And that's what's being fought.

I think the important thing is that government 'handouts' can help, but they are most successful when the person (arguably) is most dedicated to getting out of the situation.

In fact, most do; one statistic I saw some years ago noted that 92 percent of people on welfare do manage to get off within two years. Here's another one: 45 percent who get benefits represent children too young to work.

by: liberalinlove

03-29-2011 @ 4:03am

In my opinion this is a heart issue. This is not about bigger government or smaller government helping the poor. This is about our attitude as a nation and where the subject of our conversation centers. This is a spiritual issue.

If the poor are truly helped by smaller government then I'm sure the result of the fast will be known to all those who enter into a time of repentance and listening for wisdom from God.

The focus question and answer should center around what is important to God. Those who entertain smaller government, should apply their policies to these issues first over budget deficits.

As we divide our bread with the poor, loose the chains of those in bondage, shelter and clothe those in need our healing as a nation will be speedy and God will answer when we cry out to Him for help.

Isaiah 58

by: liberalinlove

03-28-2011 @ 5:16pm

I cannot argue with the word of God!
Isaiah 58
"Shout it aloud, do not hold back.
Raise your voice like a trumpet.
Declare to my people their rebellion
and to the descendants of Jacob their sins.
2 For day after day they seek me out;
they seem eager to know my ways,
as if they were a nation that does what is right
and has not forsaken the commands of its God.
They ask me for just decisions
and seem eager for God to come near them.
3 'Why have we fasted,' they say,
'and you have not seen it?
Why have we humbled ourselves,
and you have not noticed?'
"Yet on the day of your fasting, you do as you please
and exploit all your workers.
4 Your fasting ends in quarreling and strife,
and in striking each other with wicked fists.
You cannot fast as you do today
and expect your voice to be heard on high.
5 Is this the kind of fast I have chosen,
only a day for people to humble themselves?
Is it only for bowing one's head like a reed
and for lying in sackcloth and ashes?
Is that what you call a fast,
a day acceptable to the LORD?

6 "Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter-
when you see the naked, to clothe them,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?
8 Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your healing will quickly appear;
then your righteousness[a] will go before you,
and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard.
9 Then you will call, and the LORD will answer;
you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I.

by: Lord_Voldemort

03-28-2011 @ 7:02pm

"When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

LV

by: clocks2003

03-29-2011 @ 9:38am

ISTM that, if you are using this fast as a means of applying direct pressure on politicians, then unless it is widely known about and widely copied, it will have little or no effect (other than saving those on the fast some grocery bills which can then be contributed) - and even if it is widely copied will still only have any effect if the politicians respect the people who are fasting.
If, on the other hand you are hoping to persuade God to give them a message, I suspect that
A) the fast is redundant (in that God will already have been trying to persuade them)
B) you won't 'change God's mind' so if he hasn't already tried to tell them, this fact won' make Him do so, and (regrettably)
C) even if they DO get a message from God they probably won't listen!

This is not to say that I think it is a bad idea - indeed I think it is a very good idea, just that I do not think it is likely to be effective...

by: duhsciple

03-28-2011 @ 9:01pm

Jonah 3:5-10

And the people of Nineveh believed God; they proclaimed a fast, and everyone, great and small, put on sackcloth. When the news reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, removed his robe, covered himself with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. Then he had a proclamation made in Nineveh: "By the decree of the king and his nobles: No human being or animal, no herd or flock, shall taste anything. They shall not feed, nor shall they drink water. Human beings and animals shall be covered with sackcloth, and they shall cry mightily to God. All shall turn from their evil ways and from the violence that is in their hands. Who knows? God may relent and change his mind; he may turn from his fierce anger, so that we do not perish." When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil ways, God changed his mind about the calamity that he had said he would bring upon them; and he did not do it.

by: duhsciple

03-28-2011 @ 9:06pm

Yes, we should join Jim Wallis, Tony Hall, David Beckmann, and Ritu Sharma-- doing what is just, making sure that the ones who are hurting the most are not beaten down even more, not as hypocrites or show offs, but in order that God might help us to avert the calamity of financial and spiritual ruin. May we learn to hunger and thirst for the justice of God.

by: Jack Meoff

03-28-2011 @ 9:24pm

Jim:

Just like professional hockey - outside of those cities where NHL teams play - your fast can be summed up simply:

No one's watching. No one cares.

Get over yourself. Do something profoundly humble for once, behind the scenes, without being a glory whore. You continually expose yourself for the leftist fraud you are.

Sincerely,
Real Christian America

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by: liberalinlove

03-28-2011 @ 5:16pm

I cannot argue with the word of God!
Isaiah 58
"Shout it aloud, do not hold back.
Raise your voice like a trumpet.
Declare to my people their rebellion
and to the descendants of Jacob their sins.
2 For day after day they seek me out;
they seem eager to know my ways,
as if they were a nation that does what is right
and has not forsaken the commands of its God.
They ask me for just decisions
and seem eager for God to come near them.
3 'Why have we fasted,' they say,
'and you have not seen it?
Why have we humbled ourselves,
and you have not noticed?'
"Yet on the day of your fasting, you do as you please
and exploit all your workers.
4 Your fasting ends in quarreling and strife,
and in striking each other with wicked fists.
You cannot fast as you do today
and expect your voice to be heard on high.
5 Is this the kind of fast I have chosen,
only a day for people to humble themselves?
Is it only for bowing one's head like a reed
and for lying in sackcloth and ashes?
Is that what you call a fast,
a day acceptable to the LORD?

6 "Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter-
when you see the naked, to clothe them,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?
8 Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your healing will quickly appear;
then your righteousness[a] will go before you,
and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard.
9 Then you will call, and the LORD will answer;
you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I.

by: liberalinlove

03-28-2011 @ 5:16pm

I cannot argue with the word of God!
Isaiah 58
"Shout it aloud, do not hold back.
Raise your voice like a trumpet.
Declare to my people their rebellion
and to the descendants of Jacob their sins.
2 For day after day they seek me out;
they seem eager to know my ways,
as if they were a nation that does what is right
and has not forsaken the commands of its God.
They ask me for just decisions
and seem eager for God to come near them.
3 'Why have we fasted,' they say,
'and you have not seen it?
Why have we humbled ourselves,
and you have not noticed?'
"Yet on the day of your fasting, you do as you please
and exploit all your workers.
4 Your fasting ends in quarreling and strife,
and in striking each other with wicked fists.
You cannot fast as you do today
and expect your voice to be heard on high.
5 Is this the kind of fast I have chosen,
only a day for people to humble themselves?
Is it only for bowing one's head like a reed
and for lying in sackcloth and ashes?
Is that what you call a fast,
a day acceptable to the LORD?

6 "Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter-
when you see the naked, to clothe them,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?
8 Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your healing will quickly appear;
then your righteousness[a] will go before you,
and the glory of the LORD will be your rear guard.
9 Then you will call, and the LORD will answer;
you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I.

by: Lord_Voldemort

03-28-2011 @ 7:02pm

"When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

LV

by: Lord_Voldemort

03-28-2011 @ 7:02pm

"When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

LV

by: duhsciple

03-28-2011 @ 9:01pm

Jonah 3:5-10

And the people of Nineveh believed God; they proclaimed a fast, and everyone, great and small, put on sackcloth. When the news reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, removed his robe, covered himself with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. Then he had a proclamation made in Nineveh: "By the decree of the king and his nobles: No human being or animal, no herd or flock, shall taste anything. They shall not feed, nor shall they drink water. Human beings and animals shall be covered with sackcloth, and they shall cry mightily to God. All shall turn from their evil ways and from the violence that is in their hands. Who knows? God may relent and change his mind; he may turn from his fierce anger, so that we do not perish." When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil ways, God changed his mind about the calamity that he had said he would bring upon them; and he did not do it.

by: duhsciple

03-28-2011 @ 9:01pm

Jonah 3:5-10

And the people of Nineveh believed God; they proclaimed a fast, and everyone, great and small, put on sackcloth. When the news reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, removed his robe, covered himself with sackcloth, and sat in ashes. Then he had a proclamation made in Nineveh: "By the decree of the king and his nobles: No human being or animal, no herd or flock, shall taste anything. They shall not feed, nor shall they drink water. Human beings and animals shall be covered with sackcloth, and they shall cry mightily to God. All shall turn from their evil ways and from the violence that is in their hands. Who knows? God may relent and change his mind; he may turn from his fierce anger, so that we do not perish." When God saw what they did, how they turned from their evil ways, God changed his mind about the calamity that he had said he would bring upon them; and he did not do it.

by: duhsciple

03-28-2011 @ 9:06pm

Yes, we should join Jim Wallis, Tony Hall, David Beckmann, and Ritu Sharma-- doing what is just, making sure that the ones who are hurting the most are not beaten down even more, not as hypocrites or show offs, but in order that God might help us to avert the calamity of financial and spiritual ruin. May we learn to hunger and thirst for the justice of God.

by: duhsciple

03-28-2011 @ 9:06pm

Yes, we should join Jim Wallis, Tony Hall, David Beckmann, and Ritu Sharma-- doing what is just, making sure that the ones who are hurting the most are not beaten down even more, not as hypocrites or show offs, but in order that God might help us to avert the calamity of financial and spiritual ruin. May we learn to hunger and thirst for the justice of God.

by: Jack Meoff

03-28-2011 @ 9:24pm

Jim:

Just like professional hockey - outside of those cities where NHL teams play - your fast can be summed up simply:

No one's watching. No one cares.

Get over yourself. Do something profoundly humble for once, behind the scenes, without being a glory whore. You continually expose yourself for the leftist fraud you are.

Sincerely,
Real Christian America

by: Jack Meoff

03-28-2011 @ 9:24pm

Jim:

Just like professional hockey - outside of those cities where NHL teams play - your fast can be summed up simply:

No one's watching. No one cares.

Get over yourself. Do something profoundly humble for once, behind the scenes, without being a glory whore. You continually expose yourself for the leftist fraud you are.

Sincerely,
Real Christian America

by: Jack Meoff

03-28-2011 @ 9:26pm

Good call. Apostle-to-no one and prophet-of-leftist-doom Jim Wallis would do well to heed the scripture you quoted about HUMILITY in fasting.

Though, it would be proper to add the source, as with any material you are quoting.

by: Jack Meoff

03-28-2011 @ 9:26pm

Good call. Apostle-to-no one and prophet-of-leftist-doom Jim Wallis would do well to heed the scripture you quoted about HUMILITY in fasting.

Though, it would be proper to add the source, as with any material you are quoting.

by: Fellatia Longwood

03-28-2011 @ 9:36pm

The Lord calls the fast, not Jim Wallis or any other person, especially one such as Wallis hell-bent on seeing America turn into the former Soviet Union.

What a jackhole!

by: Fellatia Longwood

03-28-2011 @ 9:36pm

The Lord calls the fast, not Jim Wallis or any other person, especially one such as Wallis hell-bent on seeing America turn into the former Soviet Union.

What a jackhole!

by: Mick Sheldon

03-28-2011 @ 10:19pm

Duhsciple I can agree with the ends , but the mechanism Mr Wallis is praying for is possibly not the mechanism God will or would use .

If you believed in smaller government , more local control in government , and thought that indeed would help more people in the long run your out of the loop here , in fact looked upon as immoral and anti God . This fast seems to take on the notion God has a problem with that belief system or people who believe that smaller government works better . Freedom has promoted our living standard , not hurt it .

1.6 trillion dollars will be spent this year that we have to borrow.
Interesting just read Nadia's blog about Limiting God's gift of salvation , limiting salvation to only those who accept Christ as their Lord and Savior is wrong headed . yet over hear we have to limit God's methods to liberal progressive political view points .

If that is God's Will . I am for it . But you would never prove it by the folks who speak here or what the blogs say and negatively portray those who disagree with them . I would also like to say you are not in that number , but this being an Evangelical blog is insincere . The call to fasting appears to be for the sake of publicity to gain the attention of politicians , not God .

Sorry but that is what it looks like .

by: Mick Sheldon

03-28-2011 @ 10:19pm

Duhsciple I can agree with the ends , but the mechanism Mr Wallis is praying for is possibly not the mechanism God will or would use .

If you believed in smaller government , more local control in government , and thought that indeed would help more people in the long run your out of the loop here , in fact looked upon as immoral and anti God . This fast seems to take on the notion God has a problem with that belief system or people who believe that smaller government works better . Freedom has promoted our living standard , not hurt it .

1.6 trillion dollars will be spent this year that we have to borrow.
Interesting just read Nadia's blog about Limiting God's gift of salvation , limiting salvation to only those who accept Christ as their Lord and Savior is wrong headed . yet over hear we have to limit God's methods to liberal progressive political view points .

If that is God's Will . I am for it . But you would never prove it by the folks who speak here or what the blogs say and negatively portray those who disagree with them . I would also like to say you are not in that number , but this being an Evangelical blog is insincere . The call to fasting appears to be for the sake of publicity to gain the attention of politicians , not God .

Sorry but that is what it looks like .

by: 30_lapenseuse07

03-28-2011 @ 10:43pm

Jim Wallis's words are a clarion call to me and all of us who claim to be followers of Christ, impelling us to go beyond abstaining from coffee and chocolate to action that makes a deeper demand on us, one that is truly sacrificial. I firmly believe that Christ, through Jim's words, is calling us to be "doers of the Word" rather than just "hearers."

However, unless I missed it, there is one crucial word absent from Jim's post: Love. Yes, we must have courage, commitment, strength, and wisdom. But I am reminded that all of our efforts, however noble and well-intentioned, will be like that "clanging bell" mentioned in Corinthians, if there is no love. Love for God and love for the poor must be the foundation of our actions. And if we are honest with ourselves, we must acknowledge that more often than not, love is NOT what motivates even our noblest actions on their behalf. We are repelled, embarrassed by and fearful of the poor. Therefore, Love - not just pity and outrage - must be present.

by: 30_lapenseuse07

03-28-2011 @ 10:43pm

Jim Wallis's words are a clarion call to me and all of us who claim to be followers of Christ, impelling us to go beyond abstaining from coffee and chocolate to action that makes a deeper demand on us, one that is truly sacrificial. I firmly believe that Christ, through Jim's words, is calling us to be "doers of the Word" rather than just "hearers."

However, unless I missed it, there is one crucial word absent from Jim's post: Love. Yes, we must have courage, commitment, strength, and wisdom. But I am reminded that all of our efforts, however noble and well-intentioned, will be like that "clanging bell" mentioned in Corinthians, if there is no love. Love for God and love for the poor must be the foundation of our actions. And if we are honest with ourselves, we must acknowledge that more often than not, love is NOT what motivates even our noblest actions on their behalf. We are repelled, embarrassed by and fearful of the poor. Therefore, Love - not just pity and outrage - must be present.

by: Rakkasan

03-28-2011 @ 10:56pm

I disagree Mick. I think it's a good thing if good can come out of it. People matter and need our help, especially vulnerable people, and money is only a tool. I think God would appreciate us saving people rather than dollars but then again I'm not a religious scholar.

by: Rakkasan

03-28-2011 @ 10:56pm

I disagree Mick. I think it's a good thing if good can come out of it. People matter and need our help, especially vulnerable people, and money is only a tool. I think God would appreciate us saving people rather than dollars but then again I'm not a religious scholar.

by: Patricia

03-28-2011 @ 11:00pm

I think the way you are seeing is a problem of your ideology coloring your interpretation, both of what we "believe" here, and coloring your interpretation of what Mr Wallis and other Christian leaders feel called to do in response to the immoral (and unnecessary, BTW) choices being made in response to our debt crisis.

To clarify one more time, what most people are saying here is that there are corporate welfare programs that account for a much larger chunk of our debt crisis than these social programs they seek to cut. What we are saying here is, if the 1.6 trilliion (or whatever figure) deficit is REALLY the problem we seek to address, cuts ought to be made to THOSE programs - the programs that benefit the richest and most powerful among us - BEFORE cutting the very small in comparison programs that assist the weakest and most vulnerable among us.

Why do you thing God would have a problem with the rich giving up some of their surplus before more substance is taken away from the poor?

And, what, exactly, does any of this have to do with "freedom"? That seems like a real red herring to me. Freedom thrives under several different economic models and government sizes. Just look around at the rest of the world - you'll see lots of free people with government and economic systems different from what you see as the only way.

by: Patricia

03-28-2011 @ 11:00pm

I think the way you are seeing is a problem of your ideology coloring your interpretation, both of what we "believe" here, and coloring your interpretation of what Mr Wallis and other Christian leaders feel called to do in response to the immoral (and unnecessary, BTW) choices being made in response to our debt crisis.

To clarify one more time, what most people are saying here is that there are corporate welfare programs that account for a much larger chunk of our debt crisis than these social programs they seek to cut. What we are saying here is, if the 1.6 trilliion (or whatever figure) deficit is REALLY the problem we seek to address, cuts ought to be made to THOSE programs - the programs that benefit the richest and most powerful among us - BEFORE cutting the very small in comparison programs that assist the weakest and most vulnerable among us.

Why do you thing God would have a problem with the rich giving up some of their surplus before more substance is taken away from the poor?

And, what, exactly, does any of this have to do with "freedom"? That seems like a real red herring to me. Freedom thrives under several different economic models and government sizes. Just look around at the rest of the world - you'll see lots of free people with government and economic systems different from what you see as the only way.

by: letjusticerolldown

03-28-2011 @ 11:12pm

I like a blog where the first three comments are persons just posting scripture. I wish I could read the news and read blogs and have the first thing that came to my mind a passage of scripture and a heart of obedience.

Whether persons agree or disagree with the policy goals of Sojo--the moral question at the heart of this action is one that all can engage in good faith. I appreciate J Wallis' distinction between deficit hawks and deficit hypocrites which should basically answer Mick Sheldon's comment.

by: letjusticerolldown

03-28-2011 @ 11:12pm

I like a blog where the first three comments are persons just posting scripture. I wish I could read the news and read blogs and have the first thing that came to my mind a passage of scripture and a heart of obedience.

Whether persons agree or disagree with the policy goals of Sojo--the moral question at the heart of this action is one that all can engage in good faith. I appreciate J Wallis' distinction between deficit hawks and deficit hypocrites which should basically answer Mick Sheldon's comment.

by: duhsciple

03-28-2011 @ 11:18pm

Mick, the first time I ever fasted for more than 24 hours was last week. It was because of this budget issue-- at the invitation of the "Bread for the World" president. The government programs that I care about the most, as a part of my following Jesus, are the ones being cut the most. It sounds like you disagree with me, plus many of the authors and commentators on this blog.

To persuade me that my support of these government programs is ill advised, I need to see how churches could make up the difference so that people do not fall through the cracks. Given that the food pantries supported by churches are struggling, I fail to see how this could happen. I would need to see how mosquito nets and anti-AIDS drugs would be funded. I know people who are falling through the cracks.

Even if I was such a faithful Jesus follower that I gave away 100% of my income, I would not be able to meet the needs of the people I know who who benefited from government "safety nets". However, with my fellow citizens, together, we can meet the need. Since we live in a democracy, I advocate for this viewpoint. Now, it seems, the time has come for me to step up to the plate. I will be fasting. Maybe it will need to be an extended fast-- to really identify with those who are not eating because they have no choice-- even to the point that my own health is endangered.

You see some of my friends as insincere. I take your perception, what you are sorry to see, to heart, as you see in the lengthy response. I see that I will need to be very Christ centered and generous, knowing that others, such as yourself, will be looking at me very carefully. Jesus has spoken to me through your words. I need to fast. I need to be gracious. All the best, duh

by: duhsciple

03-28-2011 @ 11:18pm

Mick, the first time I ever fasted for more than 24 hours was last week. It was because of this budget issue-- at the invitation of the "Bread for the World" president. The government programs that I care about the most, as a part of my following Jesus, are the ones being cut the most. It sounds like you disagree with me, plus many of the authors and commentators on this blog.

To persuade me that my support of these government programs is ill advised, I need to see how churches could make up the difference so that people do not fall through the cracks. Given that the food pantries supported by churches are struggling, I fail to see how this could happen. I would need to see how mosquito nets and anti-AIDS drugs would be funded. I know people who are falling through the cracks.

Even if I was such a faithful Jesus follower that I gave away 100% of my income, I would not be able to meet the needs of the people I know who who benefited from government "safety nets". However, with my fellow citizens, together, we can meet the need. Since we live in a democracy, I advocate for this viewpoint. Now, it seems, the time has come for me to step up to the plate. I will be fasting. Maybe it will need to be an extended fast-- to really identify with those who are not eating because they have no choice-- even to the point that my own health is endangered.

You see some of my friends as insincere. I take your perception, what you are sorry to see, to heart, as you see in the lengthy response. I see that I will need to be very Christ centered and generous, knowing that others, such as yourself, will be looking at me very carefully. Jesus has spoken to me through your words. I need to fast. I need to be gracious. All the best, duh

by: Mick Sheldon

03-29-2011 @ 2:00am

Duh I am not trying to persuade you at all in your political beliefs . No doubt if you believe it is immoral to cut the budget that hurts certain programs , how could I or why would I persuade you different . I disagree . And I also thought is was wrong for a Minister of the Gospel to call for the Fast in this matter .

I was pointing out that say it would have been something I , an Evangelical Christian could understand and even participate in if the end result was helping the poor, without a political ideology attached to it . Remember the loaves of bread and fish our Lord fed to the thousands . You think a fast telling Jesus how to pull that off would be a good idea ? Why LIMIT His methods to your world and political view . ?

If I called a fast say from a Wall Street Banking Point Of View to increase the DOW by 1000 points so more people could have food to eat because of the jobs that would come along with it , and also stop the immoral regulation that impeded the growth of business to help the multitudes... would you join in ? I would not . What happens if some of those who prosper from de regulation do something that huts our environment , or what happens say your way if we allow our budget to continue to run in deficits and the poor actually start dying in other countries because of the financial impact that has on them also . You do realize our debt hurts the poor all over the world . It hurts our poor here also .

Oh no the church is far from being able now to feed the poor , all the poor . But we are commanded to do that . Doing it through government is something I believe often hurts in the long run if the program is not run properly , good government programs from my view point are ones that allow people to no longer need them after a while . You have not persuaded me that is an appropriate political response either. After Trillions in debt and still so many needing help clearly is the proof I need to persuade myself that government in the way it has been behaving in the answer to the problems of the poor .

The debt crisis will cause the next generation even harsher cuts if it is not addressed . My view there has to be some cuts to those in need, there is not enough money unless you actually steal it from people to keep this spending up . If you steal it , those making the money will stop working as hard to make it . Its been the down fall of socialism and communism . Its you my brother who needs to persuade the vast majority of Americans that communism or socialism is better . If your addressing me as an Evangelical , which I am and I believe you are , you are in the minority , not I . Not that proves anything .
Just your side has lost many in the ranks of Evangelical support as of late , increasingly so . Not for for your objectives , but the methods .

But you need proof that the churches can make of the difference ? Well statistically there is proof that the government will soon not be able to . It already has come to the point where we are in the danger zone . The churches making up the difference , well I believe God can make up the difference . In North America we suffer , as I do also , with needing proof . Not trusting God . Africa, China , and other places the Gospel is gaining in leaps and bounds .
people are being healed , Aids is being cured , the blind are seeing , ears are opening . miracles , miracles miracles . In America we require proof . The church is so cerebral it has lost its Heart . Lukewarm . You want an act of God , call the 1800 hotline to your legislator .

In my understanding I would have said we need to pray that the numbers effected by the cuts will be helped and blessed with the Mercy of our Lord . That means somehow staying on a government program , or God finding them a job , maybe it means a friend being motivated to help them by the Holy Spirit . I have only fasted myself for local issues , such as revival or something pertaining to a ministry .Just rubbed me the wrong way . Please do not endanger your health , I do not believe God ever wants us to that .

Love In Christ,

by: Mick Sheldon

03-29-2011 @ 2:00am

Duh I am not trying to persuade you at all in your political beliefs . No doubt if you believe it is immoral to cut the budget that hurts certain programs , how could I or why would I persuade you different . I disagree . And I also thought is was wrong for a Minister of the Gospel to call for the Fast in this matter .

I was pointing out that say it would have been something I , an Evangelical Christian could understand and even participate in if the end result was helping the poor, without a political ideology attached to it . Remember the loaves of bread and fish our Lord fed to the thousands . You think a fast telling Jesus how to pull that off would be a good idea ? Why LIMIT His methods to your world and political view . ?

If I called a fast say from a Wall Street Banking Point Of View to increase the DOW by 1000 points so more people could have food to eat because of the jobs that would come along with it , and also stop the immoral regulation that impeded the growth of business to help the multitudes... would you join in ? I would not . What happens if some of those who prosper from de regulation do something that huts our environment , or what happens say your way if we allow our budget to continue to run in deficits and the poor actually start dying in other countries because of the financial impact that has on them also . You do realize our debt hurts the poor all over the world . It hurts our poor here also .

Oh no the church is far from being able now to feed the poor , all the poor . But we are commanded to do that . Doing it through government is something I believe often hurts in the long run if the program is not run properly , good government programs from my view point are ones that allow people to no longer need them after a while . You have not persuaded me that is an appropriate political response either. After Trillions in debt and still so many needing help clearly is the proof I need to persuade myself that government in the way it has been behaving in the answer to the problems of the poor .

The debt crisis will cause the next generation even harsher cuts if it is not addressed . My view there has to be some cuts to those in need, there is not enough money unless you actually steal it from people to keep this spending up . If you steal it , those making the money will stop working as hard to make it . Its been the down fall of socialism and communism . Its you my brother who needs to persuade the vast majority of Americans that communism or socialism is better . If your addressing me as an Evangelical , which I am and I believe you are , you are in the minority , not I . Not that proves anything .
Just your side has lost many in the ranks of Evangelical support as of late , increasingly so . Not for for your objectives , but the methods .

But you need proof that the churches can make of the difference ? Well statistically there is proof that the government will soon not be able to . It already has come to the point where we are in the danger zone . The churches making up the difference , well I believe God can make up the difference . In North America we suffer , as I do also , with needing proof . Not trusting God . Africa, China , and other places the Gospel is gaining in leaps and bounds .
people are being healed , Aids is being cured , the blind are seeing , ears are opening . miracles , miracles miracles . In America we require proof . The church is so cerebral it has lost its Heart . Lukewarm . You want an act of God , call the 1800 hotline to your legislator .

In my understanding I would have said we need to pray that the numbers effected by the cuts will be helped and blessed with the Mercy of our Lord . That means somehow staying on a government program , or God finding them a job , maybe it means a friend being motivated to help them by the Holy Spirit . I have only fasted myself for local issues , such as revival or something pertaining to a ministry .Just rubbed me the wrong way . Please do not endanger your health , I do not believe God ever wants us to that .

Love In Christ,

by: Robin Brown Finnell

03-29-2011 @ 3:51am

Mick, I totally agree with you.

Where, in all of scripture, does it say that government programs should feed the hungry, clothe the naked, heal the sick? Can you imagine in Jesus' time the Romans taking over and socializing programs for the poor? They would just assume kill all the Jews (and Christians) in Israel for the real estate and strategic military values.

WE, my friends... the Body of Christ, meaning the Church are commanded to do this. Why should we let the government step in and enable us to shirk our God ordained task? While we're in deep now, if these programs get cut, then WE, the Body of Christ, NEED to step in and fill the gap.

Are we prepared to do so? I don't think we are in this culture of superficial acquisition.

by: Robin Brown Finnell

03-29-2011 @ 3:51am

Mick, I totally agree with you.

Where, in all of scripture, does it say that government programs should feed the hungry, clothe the naked, heal the sick? Can you imagine in Jesus' time the Romans taking over and socializing programs for the poor? They would just assume kill all the Jews (and Christians) in Israel for the real estate and strategic military values.

WE, my friends... the Body of Christ, meaning the Church are commanded to do this. Why should we let the government step in and enable us to shirk our God ordained task? While we're in deep now, if these programs get cut, then WE, the Body of Christ, NEED to step in and fill the gap.

Are we prepared to do so? I don't think we are in this culture of superficial acquisition.

by: liberalinlove

03-29-2011 @ 4:03am

In my opinion this is a heart issue. This is not about bigger government or smaller government helping the poor. This is about our attitude as a nation and where the subject of our conversation centers. This is a spiritual issue.

If the poor are truly helped by smaller government then I'm sure the result of the fast will be known to all those who enter into a time of repentance and listening for wisdom from God.

The focus question and answer should center around what is important to God. Those who entertain smaller government, should apply their policies to these issues first over budget deficits.

As we divide our bread with the poor, loose the chains of those in bondage, shelter and clothe those in need our healing as a nation will be speedy and God will answer when we cry out to Him for help.

Isaiah 58

by: liberalinlove

03-29-2011 @ 4:03am

In my opinion this is a heart issue. This is not about bigger government or smaller government helping the poor. This is about our attitude as a nation and where the subject of our conversation centers. This is a spiritual issue.

If the poor are truly helped by smaller government then I'm sure the result of the fast will be known to all those who enter into a time of repentance and listening for wisdom from God.

The focus question and answer should center around what is important to God. Those who entertain smaller government, should apply their policies to these issues first over budget deficits.

As we divide our bread with the poor, loose the chains of those in bondage, shelter and clothe those in need our healing as a nation will be speedy and God will answer when we cry out to Him for help.

Isaiah 58

by: clocks2003

03-29-2011 @ 9:38am

ISTM that, if you are using this fast as a means of applying direct pressure on politicians, then unless it is widely known about and widely copied, it will have little or no effect (other than saving those on the fast some grocery bills which can then be contributed) - and even if it is widely copied will still only have any effect if the politicians respect the people who are fasting.
If, on the other hand you are hoping to persuade God to give them a message, I suspect that
A) the fast is redundant (in that God will already have been trying to persuade them)
B) you won't 'change God's mind' so if he hasn't already tried to tell them, this fact won' make Him do so, and (regrettably)
C) even if they DO get a message from God they probably won't listen!

This is not to say that I think it is a bad idea - indeed I think it is a very good idea, just that I do not think it is likely to be effective...

by: clocks2003

03-29-2011 @ 9:38am

ISTM that, if you are using this fast as a means of applying direct pressure on politicians, then unless it is widely known about and widely copied, it will have little or no effect (other than saving those on the fast some grocery bills which can then be contributed) - and even if it is widely copied will still only have any effect if the politicians respect the people who are fasting.
If, on the other hand you are hoping to persuade God to give them a message, I suspect that
A) the fast is redundant (in that God will already have been trying to persuade them)
B) you won't 'change God's mind' so if he hasn't already tried to tell them, this fact won' make Him do so, and (regrettably)
C) even if they DO get a message from God they probably won't listen!

This is not to say that I think it is a bad idea - indeed I think it is a very good idea, just that I do not think it is likely to be effective...

by: duhsciple

03-29-2011 @ 11:10am

Of course, I believe that followers of Christ should feed, clothe, house, visit, and care for the "least of these." As a citizen, I would also like the institutions in our society to be focused on this task. I know, however, that both churches and societal institutions (and individuals such as myself) are marked by sin and corruption. Therefore, fasting and repentance is an ongoing task.

by: duhsciple

03-29-2011 @ 11:10am

Of course, I believe that followers of Christ should feed, clothe, house, visit, and care for the "least of these." As a citizen, I would also like the institutions in our society to be focused on this task. I know, however, that both churches and societal institutions (and individuals such as myself) are marked by sin and corruption. Therefore, fasting and repentance is an ongoing task.

by: Stein

03-29-2011 @ 1:53pm

@Robin Brown Finnell:
You ask "Where, in all of scripture, does it say that government programs should feed the hungry...".

I think you are asking rhetorically, assuming that scripture does not say it. But scripture DOES invoke government programs to feed the hungry, as I and others posting here have pointed out in the past.

You may choose to interpret scripture through an individualistic lense, but please be aware that you are filtering out or discounting certain passages in order to do so.

by: Stein

03-29-2011 @ 1:53pm

@Robin Brown Finnell:
You ask "Where, in all of scripture, does it say that government programs should feed the hungry...".

I think you are asking rhetorically, assuming that scripture does not say it. But scripture DOES invoke government programs to feed the hungry, as I and others posting here have pointed out in the past.

You may choose to interpret scripture through an individualistic lense, but please be aware that you are filtering out or discounting certain passages in order to do so.

by: Patricia

03-29-2011 @ 2:22pm

I believe this issue has nothing to do with the government "taking over" Christian responsibilities - Christians are perfectly free to engage in whatever charitable activities they choose to - and this is also an issue - Christian charity is about Christian choice, NOT about the actual need that exists. What about all the people who exist in real need outside of the choices made by Christians?

The government - US - has a legitimate role in promoting the general welfare of its citizens. It is only American conservative Christians who, for some reason, have wrapped their ideology around their faith and cannot seem to separate the two any more. Are Christians in any other nation less so, or have they fallen away from God's mandate because they have "larger" governments and provide "more" services than ours does? I really don't think God cares HOW the poor are assisted, as long as God's basic principles (which are common between religions, not exclusively Christian) are adhered to in providing that assistance. Government has a role. Churches have a role. Private charity has a role.

This is why we have a separation of church and state in our nation. The church has no right to dictate which services the people of a nation decide to provide to the poor. The state has no right to dictate which services churches provide to the poor. BOTH of these are necessary to even begin to meet the need that exists.

It is so tragic that we spend so much time sitting in judgment of the poor, and that we expend so much effort working for "smaller government" on the backs of the poor, while completely ignoring the herd of corporate elephants rampaging through our living rooms doing exponentially greater damage. Just look at the amount of space in this blog posters take up blasting programs that assist the poor, versus those that take the rich and corporate welfare to the same task. Our national worship of mammon is blatantly on display.

by: Patricia

03-29-2011 @ 2:22pm

I believe this issue has nothing to do with the government "taking over" Christian responsibilities - Christians are perfectly free to engage in whatever charitable activities they choose to - and this is also an issue - Christian charity is about Christian choice, NOT about the actual need that exists. What about all the people who exist in real need outside of the choices made by Christians?

The government - US - has a legitimate role in promoting the general welfare of its citizens. It is only American conservative Christians who, for some reason, have wrapped their ideology around their faith and cannot seem to separate the two any more. Are Christians in any other nation less so, or have they fallen away from God's mandate because they have "larger" governments and provide "more" services than ours does? I really don't think God cares HOW the poor are assisted, as long as God's basic principles (which are common between religions, not exclusively Christian) are adhered to in providing that assistance. Government has a role. Churches have a role. Private charity has a role.

This is why we have a separation of church and state in our nation. The church has no right to dictate which services the people of a nation decide to provide to the poor. The state has no right to dictate which services churches provide to the poor. BOTH of these are necessary to even begin to meet the need that exists.

It is so tragic that we spend so much time sitting in judgment of the poor, and that we expend so much effort working for "smaller government" on the backs of the poor, while completely ignoring the herd of corporate elephants rampaging through our living rooms doing exponentially greater damage. Just look at the amount of space in this blog posters take up blasting programs that assist the poor, versus those that take the rich and corporate welfare to the same task. Our national worship of mammon is blatantly on display.

by: Mick Sheldon

03-29-2011 @ 2:56pm

@Stein

Of course the Lord can use governments to do His will, my point was He can use any means he chooses . Not limited to the ones Jim Wallis chooses. After the Lord fed the thousands with fish and loaves of bread the, folks called out for him to be their political leader. He refused . That was not His way of reaching the poor .

Nothing wrong with for supporting political causes , and nothing wrong with asking God to direct our paths in doing so . You do however limit your numbers in the Christian community asking God to follow a specfic political route that encourges a specfic political agenda .

@RAKKASAN I apprectiate your disagreement . Don't have to be a religious scholar to have your words be worthy and respected by me . The Bible and understanding it helps our relationship , with each other and our Lord . Helps our spirtual involvement with our Lord .

by: Mick Sheldon

03-29-2011 @ 2:56pm

@Stein

Of course the Lord can use governments to do His will, my point was He can use any means he chooses . Not limited to the ones Jim Wallis chooses. After the Lord fed the thousands with fish and loaves of bread the, folks called out for him to be their political leader. He refused . That was not His way of reaching the poor .

Nothing wrong with for supporting political causes , and nothing wrong with asking God to direct our paths in doing so . You do however limit your numbers in the Christian community asking God to follow a specfic political route that encourges a specfic political agenda .

@RAKKASAN I apprectiate your disagreement . Don't have to be a religious scholar to have your words be worthy and respected by me . The Bible and understanding it helps our relationship , with each other and our Lord . Helps our spirtual involvement with our Lord .

by: Jennifer A. Nolan

03-29-2011 @ 4:46pm

I must agree. Unless those with the most to lose from these budget cuts take meaningful action of their own, the fasts, prayers, and "actions" of these few religious witnesses will look like so many quixotic gestures on behalf of an inert constituency. Inert, or possibly nonexistent, for who is to say these activists and organizations do not overcount their clients? If low-income people are half as serious about their "needs" as blacks were about their civil rights, and ACT that way, then the budget-cutters will change their tune. Before that, no amount of fasting, praying, or gesture-making will change a thing. Wallis and his colleagues should have built a broad base of support for their positions long before the second Bush II administration.

by: Jennifer A. Nolan

03-29-2011 @ 4:46pm

I must agree. Unless those with the most to lose from these budget cuts take meaningful action of their own, the fasts, prayers, and "actions" of these few religious witnesses will look like so many quixotic gestures on behalf of an inert constituency. Inert, or possibly nonexistent, for who is to say these activists and organizations do not overcount their clients? If low-income people are half as serious about their "needs" as blacks were about their civil rights, and ACT that way, then the budget-cutters will change their tune. Before that, no amount of fasting, praying, or gesture-making will change a thing. Wallis and his colleagues should have built a broad base of support for their positions long before the second Bush II administration.

by: Patricia

03-29-2011 @ 6:15pm

Yes, it's the poor peoples' fault. If only they had formed a huge lobbying effort, flush with billions of dollars, to buy politicians pliable to their will.

by: Patricia

03-29-2011 @ 6:15pm

Yes, it's the poor peoples' fault. If only they had formed a huge lobbying effort, flush with billions of dollars, to buy politicians pliable to their will.

by: westandasone

03-29-2011 @ 9:01pm

Do you seriously expect that someone who is homeless and hungry has the opportunity to even to know what is about to happen to them? Do you understand that when a person is homeless and or hungry all they can focus on is something to eat and a safe place to sleep? These people do not read blogs, they don't watch the news, they don't Tweet and they are not on Facebook..........and they certainly do not have the ability to collectively organize.

....and they certainly have no ability to collectively organize.

by: westandasone

03-29-2011 @ 9:01pm

Do you seriously expect that someone who is homeless and hungry has the opportunity to even to know what is about to happen to them? Do you understand that when a person is homeless and or hungry all they can focus on is something to eat and a safe place to sleep? These people do not read blogs, they don't watch the news, they don't Tweet and they are not on Facebook..........and they certainly do not have the ability to collectively organize.

....and they certainly have no ability to collectively organize.

by: clocks2003

03-29-2011 @ 9:28pm

So not like the civil rights protesters then - they clearly can't have been hungry or homeless and must have been on Twitter & facebook since they evidently did manage to collectively organise - Oh wait, internet wasn't invented then was it? I wonder how they managed it? - Do you suppose they used something called a telephone or even - shock horror - spoke face-to-face?????

O K - I was making a point. Life is not as black & white as your post implies.
Yes, of course getting food & shelter is the first priority, but they are still capable of other thought as well, and they can still get the news if they want to (albeit often a day late!). It was not the rank & file Civil Rights protesters who were the ogranisers though, it was an educated, funded group who stirred up they masses, and many of those rank & file were out of work - that is why they had the time to be on the marches!

by: clocks2003

03-29-2011 @ 9:28pm

So not like the civil rights protesters then - they clearly can't have been hungry or homeless and must have been on Twitter & facebook since they evidently did manage to collectively organise - Oh wait, internet wasn't invented then was it? I wonder how they managed it? - Do you suppose they used something called a telephone or even - shock horror - spoke face-to-face?????

O K - I was making a point. Life is not as black & white as your post implies.
Yes, of course getting food & shelter is the first priority, but they are still capable of other thought as well, and they can still get the news if they want to (albeit often a day late!). It was not the rank & file Civil Rights protesters who were the ogranisers though, it was an educated, funded group who stirred up they masses, and many of those rank & file were out of work - that is why they had the time to be on the marches!