Terry Jones: We Have Lost Our Brother

I find it interesting, however, that many who post on SOJO seem to take a certain delight in lambasting others who proclaim that they are followers of Christ, but show extraordinary restraint when discussing the actions of those who follow other faiths.

This is an overtly Christian blog, however -- not Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu or any other religion. As such, we need to examine ourselves if we not only get the teachings of Christ right but to execute them properly with the assistance of the Holy Spirit. Why in the world should be expect non-believers to act like believers, especially considering "such were some of you"? I remember what I was like before Christ -- do you?

"...when I see other people behaving badly, I tend not to jump in and correct as quickly."

What if the "behaving badly" is in the form of violent beheadings. Mr. Jones should be admonished for his irresponsible behavior, but I cannot accept these subtle attempts to establish an equivalence between burning religious texts and the violent beheadings of innocent people. The latter is much more outrageous!

Every person who calls him or herself a Christian, and every organization or church that considers itself "Christian," should publicly and emphatically denounce Terry Jones, his followers, and their actions of burning the Quran. Period. He is an absolute embarrassment to the faith and his actions and words could not be further from the heart of Christ.

I would like to hear Mr. Jones's defense of what happened, in light of his earlier pledge to not burn Qurans.

That being the case, I believe it's very misleading to claim that the Quran brought/brings people closer to Jesus. It could have, in a roundabout way, but what's much more likely is that it brings people to a counterfeit or lesser Jesus.

Surely the response when Mr Jones first threatened to burn a Qur'an ought to have deterred him from carrying out this act. A colleague of mine has recently shared with his friends some words of the 19th-century German poet Heinrich Heine: "Where they burn books, in the end they also burn people."

"As did those who killed others. Why the focus on Mr. Jones? I detect the soft bigotry of low expectations here."
"subtle attempts to establish an equivalence between burning religious texts and the violent beheadings of innocent people.."

So here Dr. Dixon is putting into practice Jesus' command to "take the log out of our own eye first...". And some folks give her all sorts of flak for not focussing on the other's eye first.

I've seen this kind of self-justification argument (based on 'the other' being worse) on this blog a lot. Problem is, it is contradictory to what Jesus commands.

Thank you, Dr. Dixon, for a biblically-based admonition for how we should treat Jones. If he repents, perhaps sometime in the future we can welcome him back to brotherhood.

Glad you brought this up. Dr. Elvert Dixon's writings frequently lack reasoning. How did he make a mockery of the Constitution? How was "separation of church/state" violated? How was the American legal system mocked?

As did those who killed others. Why the focus on Mr. Jones?

I detect the soft bigotry of low expectations here.

If someone burnt the Bible in front of the church where I worship I would offer them food and drink and welcome them in. If someone wants to burn a Bible that is fine with me.

Why the focus on Mr. Jones?

Some years ago in my city a child was being bullied at school, so he brought a gun to school to perhaps settle the score. Guess where all the focus went -- on the kid with the gun without considering why he did what he did.

What Jones did was to deliberately provoke those folks to violence, and in their culture there is no focus on specific individuals who do stuff like that.

If someone burnt the Bible in front of the church where I worship I would offer them food and drink and welcome them in. If someone wants to burn a Bible that is fine with me.

Have people try to remove it from public places and I'm sure you'll sing a different tune.

I see it a little differently.

When I am in public, and one of my family members does something wrong, I admonish and correct them. I am responsible for them, because they are with me.

Yet, when I see other people behaving badly, I tend not to jump in and correct as quickly. That is because I do not feel as responsible for other people in the same way I feel responsible for my own family.

Here, Mr. Jones is (or claims to be) a Christian so we feel a responsibility. He is one of us. Meanwhile, we expect Muslim leaders to be the ones to admonish and correct their people, telling them that retaliatory killing is not the way to go.

If this article was addressed from an "all human beings" perspective, then I would agree, Dr. Dixon was being too soft, having low expectations of one group over another. It was not. We are speaking to a Christian brother, inviting him to see the consequences of his actions.

If only Terry Jones had performed an abortion. Then he would be within his constitutional rights and Sojourners could bring themselves to strongly condemn the beheadings performed in response to his actions.

Terry Jones is an irresponsible and short-sighted man, but isn't the barbaric violent response to his actions sort of proving his point?

The Quran and the Bible are not comparable.

For us, Jesus is the ultimate Word of God. For Muslims, the Quran is the ultimate message from Allah. "Burning a Bible"- to us- might be seen as burning paper and ink. For us, it's Christ that matters, not the physical pages of a Bible. "Burning a Quran"- to Muslims- is more a direct offense to their faith, as I understand it.

In other words, the equivalent to the Quran is not the Bible, but Jesus. To me- the Quran is also pen and ink. And I need to be aware that my fellow human beings who are Muslim do not see it that way.

Therefore, in interfaith relationships, we apply Matthew 7:12.

How do you remove a Bible from a public place?

Where would I find a Bible in a public place?

If I were a Muslim leader, I would quote the Quranic verse, "When you murder one person, you murder all of humanity. When you save one person, you save all humanity" (paraphrase) as the means to articulate, "This is not how we respond to this offense. We must find another way to protest."-

I understand your position.

I find it interesting, however, that many who post on SOJO seem to take a certain delight in lambasting others who proclaim that they are followers of Christ, but show extraordinary restraint when discussing the actions of those who follow other faiths.

The actions of the murderers in Afghanistan was wrong.

I find it interesting, however, that many who post on SOJO seem to take a certain delight in lambasting others who proclaim that they are followers of Christ, but show extraordinary restraint when discussing the actions of those who follow other faiths.

This is an overtly Christian blog, however -- not Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu or any other religion. As such, we need to examine ourselves if we not only get the teachings of Christ right but to execute them properly with the assistance of the Holy Spirit. Why in the world should be expect non-believers to act like believers, especially considering "such were some of you"? I remember what I was like before Christ -- do you?

"...when I see other people behaving badly, I tend not to jump in and correct as quickly."

What if the "behaving badly" is in the form of violent beheadings. Mr. Jones should be admonished for his irresponsible behavior, but I cannot accept these subtle attempts to establish an equivalence between burning religious texts and the violent beheadings of innocent people. The latter is much more outrageous!

Every person who calls him or herself a Christian, and every organization or church that considers itself "Christian," should publicly and emphatically denounce Terry Jones, his followers, and their actions of burning the Quran. Period. He is an absolute embarrassment to the faith and his actions and words could not be further from the heart of Christ.

I would like to hear Mr. Jones's defense of what happened, in light of his earlier pledge to not burn Qurans.

That being the case, I believe it's very misleading to claim that the Quran brought/brings people closer to Jesus. It could have, in a roundabout way, but what's much more likely is that it brings people to a counterfeit or lesser Jesus.

"As did those who killed others. Why the focus on Mr. Jones? I detect the soft bigotry of low expectations here."
"subtle attempts to establish an equivalence between burning religious texts and the violent beheadings of innocent people.."

So here Dr. Dixon is putting into practice Jesus' command to "take the log out of our own eye first...". And some folks give her all sorts of flak for not focussing on the other's eye first.

I've seen this kind of self-justification argument (based on 'the other' being worse) on this blog a lot. Problem is, it is contradictory to what Jesus commands.

Thank you, Dr. Dixon, for a biblically-based admonition for how we should treat Jones. If he repents, perhaps sometime in the future we can welcome him back to brotherhood.

Perhaps (and I am not directing this at anyone who has posted here already) some Christian organizations are less than enthusiastic about distancing themselves from Jones simply because, if not careful, we can find ourselves one or two sentences away from his belief. We may not be so outlandish to burn the book, but how many "Christian" communities have taken a "not in my backyard" stance on Muslims being allowed to worship anywhere? And for what reason? We don't want their religion to spread becuase it is vile and straight from the devil? If we can not respect the people of a particular religion, if we can not allow them to carve out a place of worship, how different is burning the book?
Personal responsibility for one's own actions is necessary. Still it would be unfair and ultimately foolish to try and pretend his actions had no part. But even if there had not been retailatory action, I would still want to distance myself from a man entrenched with so much hatred and fear. Whether he is burning books on the Web, or cursing them with his own thoughts- neither is following Christ's example.

MikeSw wrote: "there have been no riots"

There has been numerous "riots" on the christian right airways. Thousands, if not millions have been spent on the defense. The religious right is still using the removal as talking points to gain more power and money.

Yes, AFR radio had a newscast on how the muslim community center (near ground zero) was on hold for now. The religious right did all they could to defeat the building.

I apologize if this pushes the limits of Sojourners civility rule, but I have to admit that I was astounded by this article about pastor Jones and his book-burning escapade. Sometimes I can be very obtuse, and so when I first read this I failed to realize it was a lampoon of people who overreacted to the Koran burning: I actually mistook the article for a serious opinion piece.
Yet it should have been obvious to me, given how the author condemned the practice of judging others, while devoting an essay to judging Jones and his church. And how she threw in those completely unexplained and absurd statements about the U.S. Constitution, separation of church and state, and the "mockery of the American legal system." Obviously if she were serious she would have explained how a private citizen's actions could have violated those hoary restraints on government action -but she must have figured we'd all realize she was joking.

Even when she said that we didn't have enough information about the Koran and the teachings of Islam to evaluate them, it took me awhile to grasp her joke. I was silly enough to shake my head in amazement that someone with a Ph.D-in religion and society- was that ignorant of a religions doctrines and history which could be discovered from a few minutes research on the Internet or a library. Shame on me! I actually imagined she might not know that Islam and the Koran denies the Trinity, the death of Jesus on the Cross, His divine sonship and salvation of the world, or that it calls for the extermination of the polytheists, among other things.

And the idea that Jesus condemns the act of judging false religious doctrine- Jesus who said "judge righteous judgments"! (I don't have the citation in front of me, but a moment with a concordance can find it.) After all, much of His and His disciples ministry consisted of confronting and judging false religion, and we are commanded in the New Testament to avoid false teachers, and upon reflection I realized that Valerie Elverton Dixon must have heard these things. Her essay was just too subtle for me.

The idea that somehow pastor Jones had managed to usurp the power of almighty God, though is so over the top that it gives the game away.

Well done. Rarely does one see so subtle a lampoon. But I hope that satire like this serves it's purpose, and does not mislead people to sympathize with publicity hounds like pastor Jones, who use their free speech rights in ways that endanger lives, while not advancing the Gospel one whit, and even bringing Christianity in for contumely and mockery.