Praying for Peace and Looking for Jesus at #OccupyWallStreet

Then the rules need to be changed. Make those actions illegal. But you cannot make those laws retroactive regarding punishment.

If you want to make all the laws coincide with what is "sinful", I wish you luck. Jesus Christ upset the money changers in the temple. There is no evidence He ever upset the moneychangers anywhere else. You cannot state with any degree of integrity that what Jesus said or did in regards to His Church and His followers and His temple etc is exactly what He said or did to everyone else.

Thanks Lisa

Rules do not get changed till there is enough pressure. Bit hard to get good info on the activities re the WS Occupation, but the little I see (only just now some reporting in my national news systems), I am impressed with the intellectual effort going into formulating policy.

I am a more than a little bit aggrieved over the the way in which some are dismissing this effort. Huge opportunities were lost by the Church in not engaging with the 60's culture. I would not like to see that happen again.

Re item12 Re charges on education.

This is akin to charging babies for milk, or cropping with out fertilization. The investment in the education of the next generation is essential for the ability of the culture to maintain its self. The benefits are not just confined to the educated individual. Sure there may be a need to keep checks on 'perennial students'.

If there is too much abuse, restrict it a bit by using a scholarship system to ensure that the best and brightest can achieve. One needs to be a bit careful in selecting courses to support. As the British Empire was run by people who studied archaic languages like Latin simplistic responses need to be avoided.

Personally I would not give too many out for MBA's. (Masters of the Universe??) Not very impressed by the lack of effectiveness by many with such credentials in my time in both industry and government bureaucracies.

Rand Paul: Obama inflaming 'Occupy Wall Street' mob

Republican Senator Rand Paul of Kentucky on Fox Business warned
Thursday that the "Occupy Wall Street" protest in New York City could
become violent thanks, in part, to President Barack Obama.

"As far as this Occupy Wall Street movement goes, you know I see it sort of like a Paris mob," he said. "I see the president's rhetoric of
envy inflaming the public."

Sen. Paul said he "hoped" that the "Parisian mob" that Obama was
inflaming didn't result in "lawlessness" where protesters looted
iPhones, "because rich people don't deserve to have them."

So much for Rand Paul as a potential libertarian ally of the OccupyWallStreet movement.
Do you see any common ground there, Thaddeus?

Because your "secret death panel" sounded too much like an attack on "Obamacare," the administration's half-a-loaf attempt to extend medical insurance to millions of working poor. (At any rate, death comes to us all, and we will have to man and woman up and face the music, instead of dragging our "fight for life" on and on the way we do.) Until I looked at your link, I thought you were up to the usual poor-bashing. This is too bad, because you are right -- this is a vital civil-rights issue that rich and poor alike are disgracefully neglecting and will have to answer for. Pity about that presentation of yours; please be more careful next time.

Point taken about the "Jew" name-calling -- but that was made by a fellow Jew! Anyway, "get a job" is a lousy answer for someone, even a blockhead like that young man, who already works hard for pennies. Anyway, before you go lobbing bigotry accusations at progressive poor folks, look to your own ratty laurels: check out juntintime's YouTube link on Tea Party racism, and then dig deeper into some of your beloved anti-communist arguments, and see why they make Shoah survivors nervous.

Yeah, now THIS comment I like!!

Uh, thanks, bunndogg, but some specific answers have been in the progressive tank for many years, and have been callously pushed aside by opposing interests of very great size and power. This is what happens when honest effort goes unrequited for too long: people stop trying and start demanding that the powers stop abusing them. Unfortunately, a bit of incoherence will creep in. Put the Center for American Progress on Yahoo, and see what good answers are available; also, try Demos.

Jennifer,
In another youtube, which I did not link to directly, 'Lotion Man' states that he's Jewish.
The National Review cited their youtube as evidence that the OWS is anti-semitic.
I call that charge bogus for the reasons I stated.

I agree, Lotion Man has a problem with his own ethnic identity, among other things.
My point: It was not established that NYC street person 'Lotion Man' is a part of the OWS movement, just because he happened to be in 'Liberty Park' at the same time as the National Review cameraman.
I call this bad journalism, fear mongering and slander.

Too bad! Not only should we stop demonizing Obama for his ethnic background, we should stop electing people as far to the RIGHT as he is! Why don't we have an equitable health-insurance system? Because we won't vote or organize for it! Progress will be made when the vast majority of working Americans get out of their own way.

Why don't we have an equitable health-insurance system? Because we
won't vote or organize for it! Progress will be made when the vast
majority of working Americans get out of their own way.

This is a good point, Jennifer.

I think the reason we lost the last Health Care battle and ended up with a bill that awards even bigger profits to the health insurance industry is that the proponents, mostly progressive democrats and Obama administration tacticians, grossly underestimated the power of the health insurance and pharmaceutical industries, the level of political corruption and the degree to which the right wing propaganda mill would be deployed against the concept of universal health care.

We have to keep working on improving our health care system and making it more efficient, recognizing that health system profiteers are using our own financial resources against us in corrupting our political system in order to protect their enormous income stream.

The health insurance industry is 'the Great Leech' on the health of America.
We must remove this parasite from the body politic.
Other nations have successfully done this.
Socialized health care systems in European nations and Canada are twice as efficient as ours.

Never give up!

Hitting on some obvious points here...

"We will likely see images and hear things from Occupy Wall Street demonstrators that will offend us and some that will inspire."
--If only you and others showed the same charitable attitude towards the tea partiers, instead of branding the whole bunch 'racist.'

"When they talk about holding banks and corporations accountable, they sound like Jesus and the biblical prophets before him who all spoke about holding the wealthy and powerful accountable."

--Of course, you could say the same about the tea partiers and their criticisms of the corrupt forces in our government and those who influence it.

It would have been nice to see Wallis and others serve casseroles and peace-zas to folks in the tea party movement. I personally would have appreciated calls of prayer for them. Just saying.

Like me see if I have your objections clear. Jim writes against a group that he disagrees with politically and in favor of one that he agrees with politically in broad terms. So the scandal is...Jim agrees with some people and disagrees with others?

I don't recall Tea Partiers talking about concern for the poor, only concern that the "government" was too big, oppressive, and corrupt. I don't recall them being especially concerned people oppressed by anything except taxes and government regulation, so debt, insecurity, and unemployment not related to illegal immigration were off the radar.

Not all "anti-government" movements are the same. Communists, fascists, libertarians, syndicalists, socialists (real ones, not strawmen), corporations, all complain about the current government but that doesn't mean I or you or Jim have to agree with all of them to agree with one of them.

My apologies for misunderstanding. I agree that libertarians would no doubt have some things in common with the OWS group, though I have often encountered in libertarians a reluctance to work with "progressives" of any stripe despite their avowed dislike of crony capitalism, pro-choice, and anti-drug war beliefs. The reverse is also true in some cases, but I've seen more progressives say nice things about Ron Paul's anti-war stance (even if they loathe the rest of his platform) than I've seen libertarians praise any Democrat.

Just as an example, I don't recall many libertarian bloggers (not representative of the whole group necessarily, but not still a strong voice) saying they would vote for John Kerry in 2004 despite DHS, Medicare drug benefits, spiraling deficits, blatant favoritism in government contracts, and military adventurism. At most they would muster an objection to Bush, usually they said Bush was pro-business so that was enough. And libertarian writers were far more likely to praise McCain than Obama in 2008.

I can definitely agree on those points.

I get your point and I would completely agree with your trajectory but for the fact that your argument has no real foundation, because you assume that the Tea Party has the same nature, aim, constitution and ethos as Occupy Wall Street. There are MANY contrasts between the two, sufficient to prove my point, but just one for now: who are the Occupy Wall Streeters that are looking for a vote on the basis of partisan politics? When has the Tea Party demonstrated a true sense of consideration for the POOR? And where is the proof that the Tea Party cuts across all kinds of ethnic, social and political lines as Occupy Wall Street?

The issue is not that Wallis agrees with Occupy Wall Street moreso than the Tea Party. That stands to reason, based on his political allegiances.

It is the manner in which he dismissed the Tea Party, including labelling the movement as racist, that is more problematic. There have been instances (actually caught on camera, unlike the rumored instances of racism at Tea Party events) of anti-semitic tirades from Occupy Wall St. protestors. Yet Wallis gives them the benefit of the doubt.

He gives them the benefit of the doubt because he agrees with their politics.

I think "for now" is the operative phrase here. The Tea Party began without any sort of political agenda. As movements evolve, politicians figure out how to use them to their advantage. Comparing a nascent movement to an established one is comparing apples and oranges.

I spoke on Sunday to the civil rights breakfast meeting
that meets every Sunday in Birmingham at one of the churches, where I am one of
two Chaplains. I placed 'Occupy Wall Street" in Biblical perspective,
since it mirrors a remarkable event at the end of the life of Jesus. A
summary follows:

In
first century Israel, the nation's leader was not King Herod, who was appointed
by the Roman Emperor, but the priesthood of the Temple of Jerusalem, led by the
Chief priest, Caiaphus. With his disciples and other followers in a
remarkably democratic movement, including many women, gathered at
Capernaum on the Sea of Galilee, he led a great march South upon Jerusalem and
the Temple, to tackle what was to them the basis of the economy, for the Temple
was Israel's Wall Street!

The
most powerful instrument in the Israel economy was the sacrifice industry, and
industry it was. The peasant farmers of Israel contracted with the Temple
to raise animals for sacrifice, for they had to be specially raised, being
blessed, for pay, at every step of the process. To do this, the poor
peasant mortgaged his tiny tract of land, his small farm, to the Temple, which
would be repaid when and if he got his money at the end of the process.
If he couldn't pay, it would be foreclosed on and repossessed! Yep, Wall
Street Israel and the Temple were one had the same. The economic
dominators have never changed!

We
know from the story that his aging mother, at the end of her days at 50 or
older (life expectancy was about 50) was with him on this long and arduous
march. I suspect that she wasn't home because it had been
repossessed! And were had Jesus been when he disappeared from the story
from the age of 12 until he was 30? Very possible sold into slavery
to help her maintain possession of Joseph's bit of land.

It's
easy to see why Jesus was marching on the Temple; it was the same reason that
Wall Street is today occupied by young people and their supporters.
Indeed, when this band of revolutionaries arrived at the Temple, they occupied
the outer court, where commerce, including banking (money exchange) and the
sale of the sacrifice animals took place.

Jesus
and his band were not violent, and they did not attack anyone. Instead,
they released the animals from the cages, in what may have been the first
animal liberation movement in history, and used whips to drive the animals out,
destroying the basis of the economy! Not only were the animals
free, but they were not made impure and couldn't be used for sacrifice!!!

No
wonder the Chief Priests wanted this revolutionary dead! This was a
non-violent revolution, which Occupy Wall Street can become!

Caiaphus
held a trial and convicted him, of course, but execution wasn't enough for
Jesus

"Occupy Wall Street" protestors could be a movement indirectly or directly from Jesus. What I discovered was that a group of "Occupy Wall Street" had a meeting in a Methodist Church in Philadelphia, PA. Is it not amazing that many of the movements for more equality started in Methodist Churches whether the Women Suffrage to Abolition to Prohibition to Child Labor Laws. Yes, I realize that too often they became one focus rather than multi-focus which a warning for us in the 21st Century. Remember, the largest group of people who have been affected by the economic downturn have been people with disabilities, especially people with intellectual impairments, the most. Let us Pray, Plan, and Support as God leads even if you do not think it is God leading. Do not call what is from God, from Satan, because you may be placing God in a box.

What do you do for your living, groogrux?

With all the problems that are listed, is there ever a discussion about the fact there are too many people on the face of the earth? That 'be fruitful and multiply' was given at a time when that allowed a small tribe to survive and that now, our population growth is not an act of survival but of destruction?

That's an interesting point. But how would we correct that? What's the solution?

I watched that video, pooch. . . What a joke!
That's a well known NYC street person, "Lotion Man", who happened to be on the same street as the OccupyWallStreet demonstrators.
"Lotion Man" browbeats a guy with a yarmulke with his back to the camera.
"Lotion Man" claims to be Jewish. . . So we have two Jews arguing with each other?
I could wear a yarmulke and be a star on youtube.
And this is evidence of anti semitism in the OWS movement?
Have you guys ever been to New York City?
Lots of street people in NYC. . . all kinds of street people.
National Review is trying to peddle this pathetic video as evidence of antisemitism in the OWS movement.
Slimeball journalism. . . Right wing fear mongering.
Buckley would roll over in his grave if he could see what the National Review has turned into.

You guys were duped again.